CHO SEUNG-HUI LEFT NO CLUES ONLINE? |
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by Wired Blog Network April 17, 2007 A lot has come out about Cho Seung Hui, 23, the man police have named as the shooter. He was an English major at Virginia Tech, whose creative writing so disturbed his teachers that he was referred to the school's counseling service. He may have been taking medication for depression. The most detail comes from the Chicago Tribune, which reports that Cho left a note in his dorm railing against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus. He died with the words "Ismail Ax" scrawled in red ink on one of his arms. (If you know what that means, let us know). Police are reportedly searching Cho's computer for clues to what drove him. Surprisingly, though, there seems to be nothing on the internet. Cho has no apparent Google hits predating today. He's an English major who wrote creatively, but seems to have never shared his thoughts in a MySpace or Facebook profile. Some press reports claim that Cho had been dating one of his first victims, student Emily Hilscher, and that she broke up with Cho two weeks ago. Other news reports say this is false. Hilscher has a public MySpace profile that's been abandoned since December, and is linked to nine friends, none of them Cho. One them has changed her MySpace handle to "R.I.P Emily Hilscher. You will be missed." Update: The Smoking Gun has unearthed a one-act play Cho submitted to a contest last year. Reader Gabe points to this Flickr photo of a South Korean man who, according to the caption, uses the name Ismail "because his (real) name is very hard to pronounce, especially for Indonesian people.
His real name is Cho Seung Hoo ....... or is it Jo Sung Ho? " The photo is dated July 17th, 2006. The author apparently writes more about this Ismail in this blog post, which needs translation. BoingBoing has a long thread exploring some theories about "Ismail Ax." A growing consensus has it that the phrase is an oblique reference to Islamic theological history -- though so far nobody's described Cho as Muslim. Xavier expands on the theory, and ties it to Cho's play. The Prophet Ibrahim destroyed the villagers false idols to wealth and sex with an Ax in order to please Allah. Allah then saves him from the fury of the Babylonians for this act. He grants Ibrahim a gift, a prophet child. Ibrahim names this prophet child "Ismail." Ismail, the Islamic prophet, comes from Ibrahim's act with the Ax. The link I supplied goes into a little detail on the story, but there's more detailed accounts of the event all across the internet. As well, the story you linked to from the Smoking Gun also has significance. Reading it, there's a few lines that support the idea that Ismail Ax references the founding of Islam and that Cho is a Muslim. The boy calls his "father" a "Fat piece of pork." Cho writes later: "No wonder your name is McPork--I mean, McBeef" When Cho describes how the mother strikes, he describes her with the line: "Takes off her shoes to strike him" Pork is of course considered a sin to eat by Muslims, and it is a Islamic insult to beat someone with your shoes.
That last part seems quite a stretch. I'd be willing to bet money that Ismail Ax is the name of a computer game character/avatar created by the shooter. Reports say that the shooter was a loner and spent a lot of time on the computer. Knowing that, it wouldn't be surprising if he also spent a lot of time playing computer games. Maybe he took the step from playing first-person shooter games on the computer into the real world. Posted by: Bill Arnold | Apr 17, 2007 12:05:50 PM Have you seen the links below? http://eldarossell.wordpress.com/2006/08/07/new-friend-2/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/eldarossell/203788467/ Posted by: Victoria | Apr 17, 2007 12:17:19 PM I did a google on "ismail Ax" (as well as many others have done) and it turned up in a tag for a Dutch language translation program/project for the Carnegie Mellon School of Computer science. Look like term used in the Dutch language? Don't know what it means, though. Posted by: Kevin | Apr 17, 2007 12:31:37 PM In the Koran and the bible, god commanded Ibrahim/Abraham to sacrifice his son Ismail with an ax in order to prove his faith in god. That's probably the connection. Whoa... Posted by: milrock | Apr 17, 2007 12:35:14 PM In the Koran and the bible, god commanded Ibhahim/Abraham to sacrifice his son Ismail with an ax in order to prove his faith in god. That's probably the connection. Whoa... Posted by: milrock | Apr 17, 2007 12:35:18 PM Search for "Ishmael" or "In the Depths" by E.D.E.N Southworth. Seems to me to be almost certainly a direct source for the Ishmael's Axe reference. Posted by: JK | Apr 17, 2007 12:37:50 PM http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php/virginia-tech-shooting-380981.html Virginia Tech reports shooting (multiple) Posted by: Virginia Tech | Apr 17, 2007 12:46:10 PM A quick scratch through the net turned up the name of an indie band that can be easily linked to "Ismail Ax" if you are willing to go through a nasty racist door. Posted by: Bert | Apr 17, 2007 12:50:18 PM I hope I can help translating parts of the link: "This is the picture of Ismail (Cho Seung Hoo). A new friend from South Korea. Now he and his friends are staying over in a homestay (I don't know where) for a week." The rest of the blog is just detailing their journey to a fruit shop in Indonesia I guess. Posted by: William | Apr 17, 2007 12:52:49 PM Not sure what screwed up version of the Bible milrock is reading, but God asked Abraham to sacrifice ISAAC NOT ISHMAEL. Please, if you are going to make claims about what the Bible does or does not say, try to at least do the most basic of research before commenting. Not sure about the koran because I haven't read it. Posted by: R | Apr 17, 2007 12:58:53 PM I feel very badly for Cho and his victims. There are a number of issues here -- his lack of friends, possibly his religion. I think what is very important is that rather than give a speech, our President needs to take a better look at our immigration policy. Maybe the reason that Cho was quiet was that he was part of a sleeper cell. With so many foreign students, we could have more incidents like this. Students can come in with Visas and then just disappear as with 9/11. We need to identify all students on Visas, and their schools should monitor their activities. Posted by: Health Advocate | Apr 17, 2007 12:59:35 PM Commenting on some people that think that this might not be the same person, Indonesians (as most people do) refer to people by their ethnicity not where they live. A Japanese living in Fiji would be referred to as a Japanese, not a Fijian. So if he was referred to as a South Korean that is still not contradictory. There are some people who complains that this "Ismail" in the blog can't speak English, but that's not the case also. The blog was actually saying that "Ismail"/Seung Hoo was pretty good in Indonesian language. Posted by: William | Apr 17, 2007 1:00:47 PM The ‘Ismail Ax’ reference is indeed intriguing but I’d really like to read some of his ‘creative writing’ work. That, I hazard to say, would be the clearest window into this guy’s soul… Posted by: Redoubt | Apr 17, 2007 1:04:26 PM Here we go again, relating every horrible thing in the world to Islam. Posted by: MA | Apr 17, 2007 1:07:19 PM I read the script -- does anyone else think it was inspired by "Hamlet?" Posted by: Elizabeth | Apr 17, 2007 1:08:19 PM Ishmail was one of two sons betroven to Abraham, the patriarch of Judeo Christion, Islamic monotheism. Abraham had another son named Isaac who was favored by Abraham over Ishmail. Ishmail and his mother became a forgotten line of Abraham in the Old Testament, associated with evil. All notable decendands and prophets of the Old and New Testiments were cited as being of the lineage of Isaac. Perhaps the suspect emotionally rejected and identified with Ishmail as being forgotten by God and his parents, as Ishmael did. Perhaps he perpetrator saw himself as "Ishmails Tool for Revenge," Thus the statement, "Ishmail's Ax." Posted by: | Apr 17, 2007 1:10:00 PM And he's not teaching at TECHNICAL COLLEGE OF MACHINERY. STM is an equivalent of high school but more towards the BASIC practical technical side like woodwork, basic electric work and the stuff. Palembang is a hotbed for Islamic activities in Indonesia. Being an English Major doesn't mean you speak wicked English. Look at his play. Posted by: William | Apr 17, 2007 1:10:35 PM The guy probably meant, "Ishmail", but didn't spell it correctly because he was obviously a "MOBY DICK". Posted by: John in Denver | Apr 17, 2007 1:13:48 PM I was doing some research trying to figure out what it could mean. I came across the same biblical reference in the koran that this blogger did. She explains it well. http://stranahan.com/?p=766#comment-801 Posted by: rich | Apr 17, 2007 1:15:06 PM The "script" didn't seem like it was written by 23-year-old senior majoring in English. More like the mentality of a middle school kid. Posted by: JNC | Apr 17, 2007 1:15:47 PM Hey... I read/write korean. I too noticed not much info can be found on the guy but by using the korean spelling of his name: 조승휘 There may be stuff to find. In addition I notice that his english last name is spelled "Cho" yet when spoken it should sound more like "Jo" (I believe "Cho" is chosen by koreans typically so as not to be confused with "Joe" as a first name). Posted by: Jon | Apr 17, 2007 1:16:46 PM I've researched this quite a bit. It seems that Ismail was the son of a prophet, who used an axe to destroy the stone Gods of his people. I wonder if this boy, being called Ismail, may have found influence with this teaching, and left that as an indication to himself, that he was cleansing the world of 'false people'. Posted by: Ken | Apr 17, 2007 1:20:50 PM In the Koran it was Ishmael who was Abraham tried to sacrice on the mountain, not Isaac. Ishmael, Ismail (most common rendition of the name in Indonesia), Ishmail .. banana banahnuh buhnuhnuh. Posted by: William | Apr 17, 2007 1:21:05 PM Just a quick correction of the above post that mentions the story of God telling Abraham to sacrifice his son. I don't know how the story goes in the Muslim tradition, but in the Bible, the son Abraham is commanded to kill is Isaac. Ismael was his other son, whose mother was Sara's handmaiden. Anyway, just pointing out that the sacrifice story may not be the connection. (Besides, God sent an angel to hold Abraham's hand back from killing Isaac at the last minute.) Posted by: Laura | Apr 17, 2007 1:21:31 PM
Very funny 'Health Advocate': of course other shootings, such as the one
at Columbine, are all done by foreigners. By the way, he was a PERMANENT
RESIDENT, grew up in the US, on US culture and movies. Think again! Posted by: Barack | Apr 17, 2007 1:21:40 PM does the day of the death correspond with the islamic holocaust day? I saw on TV that it was Holocaust day yesterday. Posted by: JT | Apr 17, 2007 1:24:06 PM Let me start by saying my heart goes out to all the friends and families who lost loved ones in VT. My problem is that why do we as a public have to point our fingers at the police or campus officials. I'm not a big fan of our police force here in the USA either but who's to say they didn't weigh out all their options in deciding what to do. I don't know how many of us have been put in to a difficult situation such as this but I'm sure the 2-1/2 hours seemed to pass by rather quickly for the people trying to make a decision. No one could of known what was about to happen. I don't think shutting down the school would of been a good idea either. There would of been thousands of kids walking around out in the open wondering why the school was closed. Because I'm sure there are a lot of kids who wouldn't have checked their e-mail that morning or wouldn't have been listing to the radio. They would of just been there out in the open, and as fast as every thing happened who's to say it wouldn't of been worse. I know that at times things don't happen as fast as we would like it to happen (trust me I'm in Lake Charles LA and had to deal with the Hurricane Rita) but you have to remember that it is easy to say what we would of done after everything has already happened. We can always point out others' mistakes. So ask your selfwhy do we really want these people to resign their position for doing what they have been trained to do. Because to us it wasn't fast enough. How fast would you have reacted in their position. Posted by: Shawn Hanson | Apr 17, 2007 1:24:32 PM
I'm willing to bet that Cho was inspired by the writings of Daniel
Quinn, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Quinn Posted by: Carlos | Apr 17, 2007 1:27:54 PM possibly something to do with The Prairie ... http://external.oneonta.edu/cooper/articles/suny/2001suny-pikus.html
Posted by: Len | Apr 17, 2007 1:40:13 PM Posted by: Sil | Apr 17, 2007 1:48:57 PM
"Health Advocate's comment really bothers me. This person said, among
other things "Students can come in with Visas and then just disappear as
with 9/11. We need to identify all students on Visas, and their schools
should monitor their activities." Posted by: Concerned foreign student | Apr 17, 2007 1:53:45 PM Daniel Quinn's "Ishmael" novel did NOT promote violence. It was a close look at the violence caused by western civilizations. Posted by: Jennifer | Apr 17, 2007 1:54:01 PM From his plays I'm guessing that he was a victim of sexual rape or abuse -- and that is likely what the counseling was about. I can see that being the main reason for not releasing his writings. Posted by: Sasha Stone | Apr 17, 2007 1:54:10 PM Shawn Hanson, are you saying that if you were on the Police Force at VA tech ... and there was a mass murderer "on the loose", you wouldn't have gotten the word out sooner?? ok. .. thanks for not being in Law Enforcement Posted by: Earl Porterfield Jr. | Apr 17, 2007 1:54:54 PM Let's consider this. If every person in the United States was armed and competent, how many people would this guy have been able to waste before somebody put him down? Gun control is just an alias for enslaving free people to an armed minority. Posted by: Eric | Apr 17, 2007 1:55:37 PM I wish Cho had had some friends, someone to turn to. It is a tragedy that even to seek psychological help carries such a stigma. I think there are a lot of people living on the edge, ready to blow up, and the difference between whether they do it or not could come down to whether you were polite and warm toward them vs. cold and indifferent. The victims are gone, and can hopefully see from their new vantage point what their connection to their killer was. I'll be praying for the friends and families of those still here, that they can peacefully go on with their lives. What can we learn from this loss? Posted by: Sad | Apr 17, 2007 1:58:14 PM Just a thought Barack, but if one of the students had a gun for their own self protection, many innocent lives could have been spared. Gun laws or not, this idiot would have found access to firearms somewhere. Posted by: Dan | Apr 17, 2007 1:58:24 PM guys, that flickr photo doesn't look like Cho Seung-hui. this is ridiculous. they're just korean faces. get rid of the link. Posted by: asians look alike | Apr 17, 2007 1:59:24 PM more importantly, cho seung-hui was a korean who grew up in the US, not a "south korean" who studied in indonesia. Posted by: asians look alike | Apr 17, 2007 2:01:16 PM http://charleypatton.blogspot.com/ The words "Ismail Ax" were found inscribed on his arm in red ink, apparently a reference to his Xbox 360 gamertag. Friends said Cho would stay in his room and play Battlefield 2 for hours.
Posted by: craig | Apr 17, 2007 2:01:39 PM Everything I've seen so far -- the script, the interesting musings on Ismail Ax here, the snippets from the note in his room published by the Chicago Tribune, the descriptions of a person who wouldn't so much as make eye contact with his own roomate -- sound psychotic to me. A complex delusional system probably incorporating multiple elements from various sources perhaps including some twisted pieces of Islamic/Koranic imagery. There was a reference to "antidepressant medication." I'd bet money there was also antipsychotic medication. Posted by: Ken | Apr 17, 2007 2:03:49 PM I saw few posts condemning immigrants. All I have to say is that one does not reflect the whole; nor, does whole reflect the one. Majority of immigrants, just like the majority of innate Americans, are model citizens who want to live a better life in the world's greatest nation. However, there are always new bumps in the road wherever you go, I may say, and every generation has its anomolies that cannot be discovered and dealt with easily without violating personal freedoms for which America stands for and without living in world where the "Big Brother" watches your every step. Now, who wants that? Posted by: genie | Apr 17, 2007 2:11:09 PM Could this be him? This is the same way he signed the one-act play that surfaced on Smoking Gun ... http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=36164724 Posted by: Sue | Apr 17, 2007 2:12:38 PM Ismail Ax is not dutch. And my eyes are still rolling from the second comment taking video games into the equation. Posted by: Mike | Apr 17, 2007 2:14:56 PM I can't believe u tried to link this to islam, that is seriously so uncalled for .. this has nothing to do with religion, stop jumping to conclusions! Posted by: | Apr 17, 2007 2:22:36 PM This is a stupid discussion. For all anyone knows, Seung Cho just made this name up from something he read in his life. You'll never be able to know where it came from or why, most likely. This is stupid to relate it to Islam. Posted by: Jack | Apr 17, 2007 2:24:36 PM http://forum.azerinet.com/lofiversion/index.php/t8930.html I googled Ismailax and this popped up. Anyone know what language or can translate? The dates of the posts are actually before the shootings... Posted by: Chevy | Apr 17, 2007 2:24:38 PM Ismail and Ax are also mathematicians who deal with Number theory and Bessel spaces. This IS a Tech school, after all. Posted by: Ima Mathematician | Apr 17, 2007 2:25:43 PM Bob Marley has a song called "Small Axe" which could just as easily be what the guy wrote on his arm since he was probably a bit shaky. Posted by: pastafarian | Apr 17, 2007 2:27:39 PM The person who said he did this because of a computer game is ignorant and stupid. No one does this because they saw it in a video game, they do it because they are mentally disturbed. Posted by: Sean | Apr 17, 2007 2:31:03 PM You're an idiot, Eric. For starters, you're working on the theory that some stable, sensible person would actually be willing to pull the trigger, even with the horror unfolding in front of them. In fact your idea is doubly stupid, because under that kind of pressure, even trained marksman have been known to crack and be unable to pull the trigger when they were in a real world situation. You can train for all the competency in the world, but it doesn't mean a damn when thrust into a REAL situation. Let's also consider your plan in reality ... Fights on the street. Sure, mass murders may decline IF sane rational people were willing to pull the trigger. But the world your nonsense has created would see a massive spike in individual shootings. You've got drunks coming out of a bar, now instead of fists, they're pulling guns. The problem with people like you is this ridiculous ill thought out "If we all had guns we'll be safe" nonsense, when quite clearly you haven't thought it through, nor had gun violence effect your life. It's typical backward mentality from people who neither understand, nor desire to understand the complexity of the issue, preferring to knee jerk react. So many people hide behind the right to bear arms, when it has absolutely no relevance today. As Dennis Miller once said (before he turned to evil), the constitution is a 200 year old to-do list. I think all those crowing about how you all need guns need to have a close family member held at gunpoint or worse. Perhaps then you'll realise that MORE guns is most definitely NOT the answer. Posted by: Charlie Hustle | Apr 17, 2007 2:33:06 PM Translation of above page with Toggletext starts: (Sorry the translation is so bad, but it's the best I can come up with)
This the Ismail photograph (Cho Seung Hoo).
Seung Hoo asked how we went to Giant, whether walking or rising angkot. Posted by: Ima Mathematician | Apr 17, 2007 2:40:05 PM Russian Posted by: justme | Apr 17, 2007 2:41:39 PM The following explanation seems the most relevant (given to the fact that the speaker at the convocation was a muslim). "For those of you still searching for meaning in this phrase, written in ink on Cho Seung-Hui's arm and also how he signed his infamous note, it starts with the story of Ibrahim's Ax (Ibrahim = Abraham): After making sure that nobody was left in town, Ibrahim went towards the temple armed with an ax. Statues of all shapes and sizes were sitting there adorned with decorations. Plates of food were offered to them, but the food was untouched. "Well, why don't you eat? The food is getting cold." He said to the statues, joking; then with his ax he destroyed all the statues except one, the biggest of them. He hung the ax around its neck and left. --The Koran Ismail was Ibrahim's son. It was Ismail that Ibrahim wanted to sacrifice for Yahweh (with an ax)." -Bangkokker Posted by: RayRay | Apr 17, 2007 2:51:31 PM Charlie, I was going to post something in regards to Eric, but you said it all. Bravo, sir. Also, All of this bickering and theories are all for naught. The truth is that we as the general public will never know why he did this. But, it will become fact that the republicans will blame the democrats, the democrats will blame the republicans, the green party will just blaze another one, and the media will blame video games, movies, and music. Honestly, I don't care why he did it. I just want surviving family members to know that they are in the prayers of every real American. Posted by: Daniel Jones | Apr 17, 2007 2:57:02 PM Posted by: genie | Apr 17, 2007 2:11:09 PM Could this be him? This is the same way he signed the one-act play that surfaced on Smoking Gun... http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=36164724 I believe this is him for sure, because I read in one article that he was called the "question mark kid" because on attendance sheets he would only put ??? instead of his names. That's very interesting Posted by: Z | Apr 17, 2007 2:59:30 PM Posted by: Take the Asian FaceTest! | Apr 17, 2007 3:11:29 PM not sure its him here http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=36164724 look at his mouth the face seems very different, not sure though Posted by: rich | Apr 17, 2007 3:11:52 PM http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/17/cho-seung-huis-plays/ This other play also suggests psychosis. His thought process is disorganized. Many comments over there suggest the writing is juvenile -- I don't think that quite captures it. Certainly it's juvenile but it's also disorganized and depicts characters with paranoid delusions of persecution. In the Mr. Brownstone play the 3 teenage characters are depicted describing an adult in their lives -- their teacher apparently and complains that he "lives off the misery he inflicts on them." The other play has the young main character spinning extreme accusations about the stepfather's acts against him. I think the evidence is plain -- this was a psychotic, probably with paranoid delusions of persecution that took a violent turn. He was a senior -- I wonder how long he was turning in work like these two plays. Would he have passed college level courses with this kind of writing or was he holding it together for a while? Perhaps he was on at least partially effective antipsychotic medication that he stopped taking and gradually became increasingly psychotic? That is pure conjecture on my part of course but it seems very difficult to explain how this student made it to senior year as an English major with this kind of writing assignments. Posted by: Ken | Apr 17, 2007 3:14:22 PM In response to "R's" comment about the suspect possibly belonging to a terrorist sleeper cell, the suspect in question has supposedly been a resident of the US for 15 or so years ... I think its quite a stretch to imagine that he was part of a terrorist cell before he was in high school ... in addition, while not all US immigration policies can be considered adequate, racial profiling is in no way a reasonable solution (straight out of 24 that one lol) ... as well as the moral and ethical questions regarding such actions, the logistics of following every immigrant and green holder around and tracking their actions are both inefficient and inadequate ... c'est toute Posted by: YNWA | Apr 17, 2007 3:26:54 PM The Virginia Tech tragedy brings to mind a similar school shooting in 1979 California. 16 year old Brenda Spencer wounded nine and killed two in a shooting spree at an elementary school. She said, "I had no reason for it, and it was just a lot of fun," "It was just like shooting ducks in a pond," and "(The children) looked like a herd of cows standing around, it was really easy pickings." I Don't Like Mondays Either, But ... Posted by: The Sarcasticynic | Apr 17, 2007 3:29:14 PM http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/ibrahim.htm Check this link Posted by: Juan | Apr 17, 2007 3:45:32 PM Right on Eric. Whether we have gun control or not, people will still have guns. Its just that the good people will be unarmed because they don't break the law and the bad people will still be armed. How do we protect ourselves then????? Posted by: JJ | Apr 17, 2007 3:47:15 PM don't say that his computer caused him to kill people. Only in extremely rare killings/shootings, have it ever been connected to games, and I've never even heard of someone massacring other people because they play shooting games Posted by: guy | Apr 17, 2007 4:00:22 PM For reference and information, the shoes prejudice is a Middle Eastern Arab thing, and not an "Islamic" insult. The shoes obsession will merely puzzled North African and African Muslims as a queer eastern Arab custom. Posted by: The Lounsbury | Apr 17, 2007 4:25:35 PM My theory is that taxes are due today and this guy was late filing his, and knowing there was but one day left before the deadline, he panicked and went on a spree. That was a terrible remark but it comes on the heels of hours of submersion. I have been reading through, or wading through, rather, all methods of blogs and photos and various sites ruminating on what the killer was thinking, how disturbed he might have been, his playwriting, his issues, his spiritual stance, his social conditioning, issues of immigration, psychotic drugs, his level of suffering and denial, the political slant, basically the kitchen sink of tragedy analysis. Why? Because I am just like you. I am curious and impatient, and the curious mind wants to be sated, the impatient mind wants immediate answers. The truth is, in this whirlwind of sleuthing and hypothesizing, nobody really knows what the motivation was. The missing piece to this puzzle is the suicide note. Upon its full exposure to the media we might have a better picture of the triggering but until then, is this not just an exercise in gratifying our own curious, impatient minds, and feeling like we need to be in the know, to talk about the hot topic? This is not to say that I am unaware of the huge backdrop of pain and sadness, the sheer reality that friends and families and loved ones of these victims suffer as we speak, but for those further removed, its really just a statement on how the human mind is curious and wants answers, and will jump to the nearest conclusion for the sake of just jumping to one and arriving at some kind of peace of mind. Interesting. Posted by: Eric | Apr 17, 2007 4:27:05 PM ISMAIL'S AX: Yes, this is from the Koran. Also in Genesis (Holy Bible) Ishmael was the son that Abraham had through his maidservant when he didn't trust God to give him his promised son. The bible says he would be "a wild donkey of a man, and his hand would be against his brothers." (prophecy). Additionally, in the book of Jeremiah there is biblical prophecy and an account of Ishmael who kills off Jews (God had warned them not to go to Egypt) The bible is full of prophecy. It tells us we are not in a battle of flesh and blood but a spiritual battle. It is not the person of Chou, it is his soul who he had willingly and perhaps unknowingly surrendered to Satan. Is it a coincidence that the killings happened on Holocaust Remembrance Day? Is it a coincidence that the strife in the middle east today and the preservation of Israel are all in line with the prophecy of scripture? Someday every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Things on earth may be able to temporarily provide you with security but only Jesus Christ can provide eternal spiritual security. "I am the way, the truth and the life and no one goes to the Father but through me." God wants all to come to salvation and to know his love. You were created for a relationship of unconditional love with your Creator, Jehovah God. Posted by: Dana | Apr 17, 2007 4:29:41 PM When the rumor about the "Ismail Ax" writing was first reported, Google and Google Blog searches had only that one post reported among hits. There was, however, a hit from http://axinar.blogspot.com/2006/12/eight-year-old-prince.html Interesting that this devoutly Muslim country just installed a Sultan named Ismail. It is not coincidental that the blogger signs his name "Ax." Ismail is the Arabic form of "Ishmael." Genesis 16:11,12 tells about him: "And the angel of the LORD said unto her [Hagar], Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. "And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren." Posted by: JoeLP | Apr 17, 2007 4:32:51 PM This is in response to the Health Advocate who said, "I feel very badly for Cho and his victims. There are a number of issues here - his lack of friends, possibly his religion. I think what is very important is that rather than give a speech, our President needs to take a better look at our immigration policy. Maybe the reason that Cho was quiet was that he was part of a sleeper cell. With so many foreign students, we could have more incidents like this. Students can come in with Visas and then just disappear as with 9/11. We need to identify all students on Visas, and their schools should monitor their activities." I'd be surprised if Cho Seung Hui pronounced (Who-we) was a part of a cell. I'm compelled to respond to your ignorant overgeneralized comment about students who come to US with visa. He was a legal RESIDENT as reports say and lived in Centreville, VA. Our President need not to address immigration so much as social issues Hello??!! Our current president was supporting legislation amnesty to grant ILLEGAL immigrants. It's NOT typical of South Koreans to be of the Islamic faith and it's apparent and really obvious that this person was having some serious issues. This is NOT about race or immigration. Suddenly because one school shooting is carried out by an Asian, he's a terrorist?! What nationality is your family from? White? I think not. Some Scottish, Jewish, German, English mix? Really didn't your parents immigrate here or your grand parents for your great grandparents for that matter? Should be send them back to where they belong? America would NOT be where it is today in science and technology were it not for IMMIGRANTS! Anyone who snaps can be a killer. Did we forget about the overstressed and overly pressured postal employee who went into to post office opening fire on everyone there? It's when people are privately having issues and unable to find a facet for resolution or peace that it comes out outwardly in the craziest means. This is just logic. It's common sense. Just because someone has a belief in a certain religion doesn't make them a terrorist either. I hate it when people use 9/11 as a excuse. We've had acts of "terrorism" throughout US history and all over the world. This isn't new. There are people who believe in God who are Catholics and Christians who can be a killer. There are serial killers who can be a part of a church community or a rapist and their religion is irrelevant to their acts. Acts of violence are done by people not dictated by religions or races. As for games, shooting games may have been his release or relief but this is for most gamers. Look at how popular Counter Strike is. What about all the war games, like Desert Combat, Call of Duty etc. I'm a gamer and I love Time Crisis but it doesn't make me a killer or prone to killing more. It's the stability of the person's mind and obviously no one was helping him when he wasn't able to help himself. People should really try to get away from the overused words like "terrorism", massacre, etc -- words that really away from what an act really is. A shooting is a shooting, it's a killing, it's a mass murder. 33 people died and their families will feel the pain and most people will never recover or heal from this and this is the same for the THOUSANDS of soldiers being killed in a war that isn't ours. Thousands ... did we forget that we're still in a war??? These wars what is it really about? Is it a war of ideology and philosophy. Things of the mind? This guy who went killing thinking it would solve something had issues, he obviously lost a war in his mind and had things end like this. It's a shame. Posted by: A. Yoo | Apr 17, 2007 4:40:29 PM Google "Ishmael Axe" and get: "Chopping Away at the New World: The Metaphor of the Axe in The Prairie" external.oneonta.edu/cooper/ articles/suny/2001suny-pikus Take a look at it. He was an English major -- he'd be creative with his language, no? Posted by: outside the bag | Apr 17, 2007 5:04:13 PM Get rid of the guns. Why do people get guns? Because they want to kill. Nobody has the right to kill. Posted by: Vivian | Apr 17, 2007 5:09:22 PM Get rid of the guns. Why do people get guns? Because they want to kill. Nobody has the right to kill. Posted by: Vivian | Apr 17, 2007 5:09:25 PM the one in eldarossell, cho seung hoo, is highly unlikely to be the vtech shooter. the killer's name as it has been revealed by the authorities is cho seung hui. while the name may seem (and for athose that do not speak korean, sound) similar, the difference is as remarkable as would be when comparing 'dana' and 'dean'. Posted by: chris | Apr 17, 2007 5:10:19 PM IT'S NOT ABOUT GUNS, IT'S ABOUT THE HEART. Posted by: Dana | Apr 17, 2007 5:10:55 PM It's funny how this kid wanted to go out in a blaze of glory and he did. He has all of you to read and write about him. Posted by: Paul | Apr 17, 2007 5:11:26 PM Very nice comment to A. Yoo. I couldn't agree with you more. However, most people want quick generalized answers, and that's why we get the garbage from these retarded reporters and psychologists. They say things that anyone with common sense can think of. Posted by: Paul | Apr 17, 2007 5:15:56 PM Vivian, please STFU. There are many reasons people get guns. Just because someone murders someone by running them over it doesn't mean people get cars to kill. Guns protect your ass and mine. I have 4 guns and I'm 21, but I have a stable mind and I'm not bipolar and ready to go on a shooting rampage. There are worse weapons than 2 9mm pistols too, so before you blurt out your self-righteous BS think about what you're saying. Posted by: Paul | Apr 17, 2007 5:18:38 PM White Christians make up the majority of murderers, and guess what I'M A WHITE CHRISTIAN. So I'm not saying this with any biased opinion on ethnicity and ideology. I'm telling the truth. Look at George W. Bush, I can't even count how many people he's ordered to kill during his presidency. Posted by: Paul | Apr 17, 2007 5:20:45 PM If he was Muslim. His parents would know or there would be some sort of connection with other Muslims. The Ax was used by Abraham (Ibrahim) not by Ismail (Ishmael). So if it was a reference to that it would have been Ibrahim Ax rather then Ismail Ax. Anyway whatever religion he followed, what he did is not condoned by any one of them. No Religion condones the killing of innocents. And the motive cannot be attributed to them. It is more likely can be attributed other motives. Posted by: nazir | Apr 17, 2007 5:22:24 PM It's not about reading and writing about him in order to give him the glory. it's about reading and writing about him to figure it out. for various reasons. people that have lost friends/family as a result of Cho's actions might want to know the motive behind those actions. because they want to know why the lost their loved ones. those that weren't directly affected might want to know more about Cho to either prevent something like this from happening in the future, or, heck, maybe they just want to know out of curiosity.
Whatever it is, it's not to give him glory, I assure you. But people have the right to know. For whatever reason. Posted by: chris | Apr 17, 2007 5:24:22 PM You racist prick. Yea he was Korean, yea he killed people, so what, now ALL IMMIGRANTS ARE POTENTIAL MASS MURDERERS?!
DUMB ASS you don't even remember the Columbine Shooting, or does it not
matter cuz they were Americans? Posted by: fuck you HEALTH ADVOCATE | Apr 17, 2007 5:25:19 PM Ok 'fuck you health advocate'. Health advocate's thoughts are pretty narrow-minded. But so are yours. there's a proper way to voice your opinions. name calling is not one of them. Posted by: chris | Apr 17, 2007 5:27:07 PM In that Daniel Quinn book "Ishmael" the main character's name is Alan Lomax. Yeah, Alan LomAX. AX. I mean I know its a stretch, but its the only time I've seen Ismail and the letters AX on the same page. Posted by: Marty | Apr 17, 2007 5:28:38 PM I found 3 things that Ismail ax might mean there was a biblical story, a film producer whose name was Ismail merchant who died 2005 and was awarded the ax award that is awarded to Asian people, and last a story by James Finnimore called the Prairie about a settler that wanted to get away from civilization and took 2 tools a gun and a ax and there's more the symbolic meaning for ax is both creation and destruction so that's all I know so far. Posted by: lilly | Apr 17, 2007 5:29:22 PM Daniel Quinn's book did not promote violence. Posted by: chris | Apr 17, 2007 5:29:59 PM I just think it's going to be hard if not impossible to figure out Cho's psyche. I'm really not trying to be an asshole, but let's face it ... this might be the biggest "massacre" in the United States only because the U.S. has very high standards of living, but in other countries people die in the worst possible ways. I don't want to go on about what it's like in other countries because I'm sure your parents have told you or you've even researched it yourself of the 5 minute beheadings of Mexican drug cartels and other horrible acts of violence. Point is, instead of talking about this incident, we all need to work together and improve our society. If you see a "gloomy" character on campus, introduce yourself. Make a difference instead of analyzing the past, work on the future. Posted by: Paul | Apr 17, 2007 5:30:42 PM Ok. Enough with the ishmail ax. Does anybody know why he went shooting precisely at the Engineering school and not the English school where he had classes? Posted by: JJ | Apr 17, 2007 5:31:26 PM Why do so many people talk about the promotion of violence? Promoting doesn't make an individual do anything. Our media promotes violence, EVERYTHING promotes violence, even comedy. So who gives a rat's ass if something promotes it. It is still up to the individual and his/her surrounding peers to actually take action. Video games, books, music, movies, art, life can all promote violence but it's when the individual starts feeling anonymous and takes action is when shit goes wrong. Posted by: Paul | Apr 17, 2007 5:34:05 PM He probably went to the engineering building because that's where the brightest students are. Maybe he also thought that to him they were inferior because they know calculus and thermodynamics, whereas he knows how to speak well and retrieve messages from other writers. Posted by: Paul | Apr 17, 2007 5:38:40 PM Paul, It's true that the U.S.. has very high standards of living but that's not why it's wrong to call it the "biggest massacre in the U.S." for a couple of reasons. It's not good to call it that because some people might see it as a challenge. Come people might think, hell, I can kill so many more than 32. And it all goes downhill from there. But it's not wrong to call it the "biggest massacre in the U.S." merely because other countries, and I'm going to use Mexico here because it was your example, have atrocious murders carried out daily. It's fine that the U.S. has a high standard of living -- at least in this aspect. let's not raise the U.S. standard, let's raise Mexico's. That'd be a better solution. In addition, I think it unfair and very vague to characterize all of media as promoting violence. Posted by: chris | Apr 17, 2007 5:42:30 PM There are some crazy comments on this board. Posted by: Steve B. | Apr 17, 2007 5:42:36 PM Wow. Paul, I can see where you're going with many of your comments, but I must say I'm at a loss here. to assume that those who study engineering are the brightest is highly controversial, and I do not even know where to begin taking apart that statement. Suffice it to say that it's just plain wrong to say that. Posted by: chris | Apr 17, 2007 5:45:12 PM He is very sick. Posted by: Onlooker | Apr 17, 2007 5:45:36 PM What if ismail ax is an anagram? Posted by: Tim | Apr 17, 2007 5:46:35 PM If someone should feel that I am testing or phasing them to beat Cho, then whoever thinks that should check in to a mental institute. But I do understand that there will be some people that will think like that, although that wasn't my intention. Also, I like your way of thinking to where we should raise Mexico's standard of living, but let's be honest. It's not as easy as it sounds, believe me, I'm taking an economics class and that's not gonna happen in our lifetime. I don't think it's unfair that I characterize our media as promoting violence because that's exactly what it does. Let me use an example country, Canada. They have more firearm carriers per capita than we do but they leave their doors unlocked at night and during the day. Why you may ask? Their media isn't bombarded with 24 hour coverage of shootings. Their comedies doesn't consist of someone getting bashed in the testicles to find something amusing. Believe me, look harder into our "media" which covers a vast range of technology. The news, the sitcoms, the movies, it all has violence in it. When we turn on the news channel it is never anything positive, it always has to be about murder, scandals, robberies, rapes, suicides. Why? Because that's what people want to see, especially if they get a small dose of it. The more they want it, like a drug. People want to see how bad other people have it to make their life better. So no, I do not agree with you because our media is completely fucked. Posted by: Paul | Apr 17, 2007 5:48:18 PM I'm thinking maybe ismail ax is something that makes no sense, and isn't supposed to make sense. And maybe he knew that the words would be discussed and analyzed on countless blogs.
He seems like the kind of guy who'd like the last laugh. I agree with Charlie on his reply to Eric’s comment, except calling him an idiot was unnecessary. But in response to Sad’s question in what we can learn from this? There are people who are spewing out hatred for what he did and I am glad that there are people who have shown some sympathy for whatever drove Cho to do it. I honestly do not think it had anything to do with terrorism, politics, or religion. My belief is something Bill Clinton stated year ago when he was still president. In an interview, on the History channel, about the history of war and how soldiers deal with war itself, President Clinton states, “I don’t understand how a human being can stay sane in the most psychotic situation”. I state this because I believe that this country is the same as being a psychotic situation. In his note, it is believed that he stated that somewhere after negative comments about women and rich kids, he stated “you drove me to do it or this”. That reminds me a little of the Columbine shooters who were “outcasts” as well. But, through all of the hatred from what they did, understanding why they did it gets overlooked and uncared for thus the problem is never solved. This world is truly growing darker and colder and the US is front-and-center of the world. It is unbelievable the human indecency in this country now where people will judge another person to some perfect standard that they will not measure up to themselves. It’s almost as if this generation, Cho’s generation along with mine, are pushing people to be loners, cold, and depressed to the point where they will either kill themselves or kill someone else or a combination of both. So what can we learn from this? Unconditional respect as I believe unconditional love is way out of the reach of this world. You don’t have to like everyone, but, respect them. Treat like a human being like you are before it is too late and they give up on life and human beings in general. Not everyone is strong enough to endure the coldness of this world and no matter what; loneliness is a hard thing to overcome even for those who are that strong! Posted by: silk4life | Apr 17, 2007 5:50:21 PM I wonder if, as many Asians, he too majored in engineering at some point, and after not being able to handle the work load he had to major in something else ... I wonder if that was the reason behind picking the engineering school.
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