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AMERICAN BUDDHA STRIKES ITS OWN BLOW FOR INTERNET FREE
SPEECH IN KATHLEEN PARKER DUST-UP (AMERICAN BUDDHA VS. CITY OF ASHLAND,
OREGON)
See PDF here
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
DISTRICT OF OREGON
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AMERICAN BUDDHA, an Oregon
Nonprofit corporation,
Plaintiff,
vs. NO. 06-CV-3054-PA
THE CITY OF ASHLAND and THE
WASHINGTON POST COMPANY,
Defendants.
_________________________________/
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DEPOSITION OF RICHARD K. HOLBO
FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2006
11:03 A.M.
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LAURA L. SMITH, RPR, OR CSR #97-0340, CA CSR #2731
Certified Court and Deposition Reporter
2305-C Ashland Street, PMB 228
Ashland, Oregon 97520
(541) 488-4677
2
1 APPEARANCES
2
3 For the Plaintiff:
4
BY: CHARLES CARREON, Attorney at Law
5 423 Gateway Drive, #64
Pacifica, California 94044
6 650-735-5277
7
8 For the Defendant City of Ashland:
9 HOFFMAN HART WAGNER, LLP
BY: KAREN O'KASEY, Attorney at Law
10 1000 S.W. Broadway, 20th Floor
Portland, Oregon 97205-3070
11 503-595-1242
12
13 For the Defendant (via telephone): The Washington
Post Company:
14
WILLIAMS & CONNOLLY
15 BY: KEVIN HARDY, Attorney at Law
725 12th Street, N.W.
16 Washington, D.C., 20005
202-434-5257
17
18
Also present: Mrs. Tara Carreon
19 Mr. Michael W. Franell,
Ashland City Attorney
20
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*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
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1 I N D E X
2 Page
3 Examination by Mr. Carreon 4
4 Examination by Mr. Hardy 60
5 Reporter's Certificate 61
6
7
8 EXHIBITS
9
(Nothing marked.)
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*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
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1 BE IT REMEMBERED, that on FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2006,
2 commencing at the hour of 11:03 A.M., at the office of the
3 City of Ashland Legal Department, 20 East Main Street,
4 Ashland, Oregon, before me, LAURA L. SMITH, a Certified
5 Shorthand Reporter in and for the states of Oregon and
6 California, there personally appeared:
7 RICHARD K. HOLBO,
8 a witness in the above-entitled action, called by the
9 plaintiff, who, being by me first duly sworn, was examined
10 and testified as follows:
11 EXAMINATION BY MR. CARREON
12 Q Have you been deposed before, Mr. Holbo?
13 A No.
14 Q Okay. So you have been to court before --
15 A Yes.
16 Q -- testified under oath?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Okay, same thing.
19 On August 2, 2006, you got an e-mail from Kathleen
20 Parker; correct?
21 A I don't believe so.
22 Q August 1.
23 A Yes.
24 Q Okay. Is this it here, Exhibit 2?
25 A Yes.
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
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1 Q All right. And this says that, "A web site
2 registered through godaddy.com has doctored
3 my column mugshot to create a pornographic
4 image. It is both obscene and a copyright
5 infringement."
6 Did you ever see this image?
7 A Yes.
8 Q All right. And did you see that it had been
9 doctored?
10 A That would be an opinion.
11 Q Did you see anything that indicated to you that
12 Ms. Parker was telling you something true with regard to the
13 doctoring?
14 In other words, did she show you the first image
15 that was doctored, like an image of her?
16 A I looked on the Internet and found the picture of
17 her.
18 Q Okay. You found an independent picture of Kathleen
19 Parker?
20 A (Witness nods head.)
21 Q Correct?
22 A Uh-huh.
23 Q Is that a yes? They can't hear you --
24 A Yes.
25 Q -- on the other side of those keys, they don't hear
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
6
1 a thing.
2 So how did you find that picture of Kathleen Parker?
3 A I used Google.
4 Q Google Search?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Did you see there on Google image search the
7 allegedly doctored photo?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Is that where she showed you the doctored photo?
10 A She did not show me anything.
11 Q Did she send you a link to anywhere?
12 A She did not.
13 Q Did you in any way independently verify that
14 American-Buddha.com was in fact hosting the image she
15 claimed it was hosting?
16 A Yes.
17 Q How did you determine that?
18 A By -- well, not American Buddha; I used our tools
19 to correlate the MAC address of a modem registered to
20 InfoStructure to an IP address.
21 Q Okay. And so how did you do that?
22 A On our router, it keeps tables of Mac address to IP
23 address.
24 Q So you started with -- did you ever go to the
25 America Buddha web site?
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
7
1 A Yes.
2 Q Did you join as a member?
3 A No.
4 Q How did you get in?
5 A The image directory is not protected.
6 Q So you hacked the American-Buddha.com web site?
7 A Nope.
8 Q Did you notice that it is a membership-only web
9 site?
10 A The front page is.
11 Q Okay. And did you read the membership application?
12 A No.
13 Q Is it your habit to enter into web sites that have
14 membership requirements and just enter into them?
15 MS. O'KASEY: I object to the form of the question.
16 You can answer.
17 Q BY MR. CARREON: For example, have you ever gone
18 into the web site for, say, the Washington Post?
19 A No.
20 Q And have you ever searched to see if you could
21 maybe get around their membership page?
22 A No.
23 Q And why did you do it with respect to
24 American-Buddha.com?
25 MS. O'KASEY: I object to the form. He has already
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
8
1 testified he didn't, and, Counsel, the lawsuit is not
2 brought against Mr. Holbo, and this line of questioning has
3 nothing to do with the allegations in the complaint.
4 So if you can give me some basis for explaining why
5 it's relevant and likely admissible at trial before Judge
6 Panner, I'll certainly entertain allowing you to continue
7 this line of questioning. If you cannot do that, then I
8 won't.
9 MR. CARREON: I have no idea what line you are
10 talking about.
11 Q Why did you not go through the American-Buddha.com
12 sign-up process in order to see the image that you had been
13 told was there?
14 MS. O'KASEY: I object and instruct you not to
15 answer.
16 MR. CARREON: Are you going to follow your
17 counsel's instruction?
18 THE WITNESS: Yes.
19 MR. CARREON: Then we can terminate this deposition
20 now and call Judge Panner, if possible.
21 MS. O'KASEY: Sure; I have his number.
22 (Recess in proceedings at 11:08 a.m.)
23 (Conversation held off the record.)
24 ---o0o---
25 - - - - -
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
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1 Q BY MR. CARREON: Mr. Holbo, are we in agreement that
2 everything you did with respect to American-Buddha.com was
3 done in the course and scope of your employment?
4 MS. O'KASEY: I object to the form of the question.
5 You can answer.
6 THE WITNESS: Yes.
7 Q BY MR. CARREON: You did not at any time act on
8 your own behalf, fishing on your own hook, as we might say?
9 A No.
10 Q You bear no individual animus to
11 American-Buddha.com; correct?
12 A I bear no animus.
13 Q The activities you performed, what are -- which you
14 believe were proper -- were all performed in the service of
15 this policy right here, shown as Exhibit 1; correct?
16 MS. O'KASEY: I object to the form of the question.
17 You can answer.
18 THE WITNESS: Yes.
19 Q BY MR. CARREON: And if you are found to have
20 violated any laws whatsoever in the course of performing
21 this, you would -- if, for example, if you were sued as a
22 defendant, you would turn to the City of Ashland to request
23 that they defend you; correct?
24 MS. O'KASEY: I object to the form of the question.
25 Also, it calls for a legal conclusion.
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
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1 Q BY MR. CARREON: And there is definitely -- I mean,
2 this is, like, theoretical, but if you were sued because of
3 what happened on August 1 and August 2, would you turn to
4 the city and say, well, please defend me?
5 MS. O'KASEY: I object to the form of the question.
6 It calls for a legal conclusion as well.
7 If you can answer, answer. If you don't know the
8 answer, tell him that.
9 THE WITNESS: I do not know.
10 Q BY MR. CARREON: You do not know what you would do
11 if you were sued?
12 A That is correct.
13 Q Okay. Well, why is that?
14 MS. O'KASEY: I object and instruct you not to
15 answer.
16 Counsel, this has nothing to do with this lawsuit.
17 MR. CARREON: It has everything to do with it,
18 Counsel, but don't use up my transcript. If you want to
19 chatter with me, let's go off the record and we can chatter
20 extensively.
21 MS. O'KASEY: I would like my objection on the
22 record, that's all. I'm entitled to it.
23 MR. CARREON: Let's try to keep them brief; they are
24 expensive to me.
25 MS. O'KASEY: You chose to bring the lawsuit,
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
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1 Counsel, not the city of Ashland, so the expenses related to
2 that are a choice that you --
3 MR. CARREON: I'm going to bill you for every
4 frivolous word; okay?
5 MS. O'KASEY: If you would like to ask a question
6 relevant to the lawsuit, that would be good.
7 MR. CARREON: And I'm going to bill you for that
8 because that was definitely frivolous.
9 Q So how many phone calls did you have with Kathleen
10 Parker?
11 A I recall two.
12 Q And how long were those phone calls?
13 A A few minutes.
14 Q And what did she tell you?
15 A Um, the first phone call was transferred to me from
16 our utilities department to express the complaint and the
17 second phone call was to give her the status.
18 Q And so they forwarded the call to you -- I mean,
19 the electric department forwarded the call?
20 A Someone did, I don't recall.
21 Q And then you were talking with her?
22 A (Witness nods head.)
23 Q And then she said?
24 A Um, she said basically the same thing that is in
25 the e-mail.
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
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1 Q She said?
2 A That there was a site that was copyright-infringing
3 a picture of hers.
4 Q And what else?
5 A That's all I recall of the conversation.
6 Q Absolutely everything?
7 A That's all I recall of the conversation.
8 Q Okay. Well, let's go ahead and take a look at
9 Exhibit 2 and see if that refreshes your recollection and
10 you might have anything to add to your recollection of her
11 phone call.
12 Go ahead, read it. That's what we do when we
13 refresh our recollection. We actually read the document
14 that is put in front of us, we think about it, we allow our
15 recollection to be refreshed, and then we say if it did, and
16 we say what we remembered, because it happens. So go ahead.
17 A Okay. This is basically what she said to me on the
18 phone.
19 Q All righty. So has your recollection been
20 refreshed in any way such that you would add to your answer?
21 Because there are things in here that you didn't tell me she
22 told you over the phone.
23 So I'd like you to add those to your answer: What
24 did she tell you over the phone?
25 A That there was a site that had stolen her picture,
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
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1 put it on the Internet, that her children had come home and
2 she had seen -- she had had to look at it and explain to
3 them what was going on.
4 Q And you told her?
5 A To send me an e-mail -- or send an e-mail at
6 abuse@ashlandfiber.net and that we would see what we could
7 do.
8 Q See what we could do. What did you tell her you
9 could do?
10 A I said I would contact the ISP in question.
11 Q Uh-huh. And did you assure her that -- excuse me.
12 At that moment, did you see the image?
13 A No.
14 Q When did you first see the image?
15 A After she sent me the e-mail.
16 Q And how did you find it?
17 A I looked on Google.
18 Q You looked on Google, and Google is a web site that
19 is not hosted by Ashland Fiber Net; correct?
20 A That is correct.
21 Q You couldn't affect the image on Google; could you?
22 A No.
23 Q Because that's on Google, okay. So why were you
24 telling her that you would do something about an image that
25 you found on Google?
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
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1 MS. O'KASEY: I object to the form of the question.
2 You can answer.
3 THE WITNESS: I followed a link from Google.
4 Q BY MR. CARREON: But she was complaining about the
5 image on Google; right?
6 A No.
7 Q No, she wasn't, so what image was she complaining
8 about?
9 A An image that is hosted on American Buddha.
10 Q But she didn't send you a link to that image?
11 Instead, you went to the one on Google.
12 Why did you go to the one on Google?
13 A Because I forgot how to spell Buddha.
14 Q Well, didn't you just read the e-mail she sent you
15 which spells it out?
16 A I did.
17 Q And you weren't able to copy it from the e-mail?
18 A (Witness shrugs shoulders.)
19 Q It says American-Buddha.com. All we need to add is
20 the www in front and we are rolling; right?
21 A Yup.
22 Q But your forgetfulness -- what has that got to do
23 with forgetting? She sent it to you; how many times do you
24 need to get an e-mail before you can read it?
25 MS. O'KASEY: I object to the form of the question,
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
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1 argumentative.
2 You can answer.
3 THE WITNESS: I find it easy to use Google to look
4 things up.
5 Q BY MR. CARREON: And so what did you find there at
6 Google?
7 You found an image that was hosted at Google;
8 correct?
9 A No.
10 Q Oh, what did you find there?
11 A A link to a web site.
12 Q You found, in other words, the URL of a photograph
13 that has been hosted at Google?
14 A No.
15 Q What did you find?
16 A The link to American Buddha.
17 Q Okay. And then what did you do with that link?
18 A I clicked on it.
19 Q And what happened?
20 A The picture came up.
21 Q You mean the join page came up?
22 A No.
23 Q When you clicked on the image, what web site URL
24 was then displayed in the browser address?
25 A The image on American Buddha.
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
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1 Q Okay. When you clicked on that image, it is your
2 contention that it took you directly to that image and not
3 to a page that says we have your page here, join now?
4 A Correct.
5 Q Okay. And it's your claim that that did not
6 involve any getting around the security protection at
7 American-Buddha.com that keeps it a web site? You just went
8 straight in there?
9 A I don't claim anything. I clicked on a link in
10 Google.
11 Q And it took you straight into American Buddha
12 without you having to join?
13 A Yes.
14 Q So when you said previously the image files are not
15 protected but you did know that it was a membership web
16 site, what did you mean there by the image files weren't
17 protected?
18 A This is a technical --
19 Q That's all right, it's a technical case. Lay it on
20 us.
21 A It would appear that when Google spiders your web
22 site, um, that the directory in which the images are stored
23 is accessible directly.
24 Q And you are referring to American-Buddha.com?
25 A I am referring to American-Buddha.com.
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
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1 Q We are there. Okay. So you talked to Kathleen
2 Parker. Did she at any time threaten consequences --
3 A No.
4 Q -- against the City of Ashland --
5 A No.
6 Q Okay. -- in her first conversation or her second
7 conversation?
8 A Not that I recall.
9 Q Okay. Did she represent herself as being from the
10 Washington Post?
11 A No.
12 Q So when she sent the e-mail, she said I am Kathleen
13 Parker, a syndicated columnist with the Washington Post
14 writers group, was that the first time you had heard the
15 Washington Post name?
16 A No, she mentioned it on the telephone.
17 Q Okay. Did that mean anything to you?
18 A No.
19 MR. HARDY: I objection to form.
20 Q BY MR. CARREON: Did she appear to be representing
21 herself as acting on behalf of the Washington Post to you?
22 A No.
23 Q Is it your understanding that the Ashland Fiber Net
24 will take down material that is pornographic that is being
25 displayed through the Ashland Fiber Net?
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
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1 MS. O'KASEY: I object to the form of the question.
2 You can answer.
3 THE WITNESS: No.
4 Q BY MR. CARREON: Is it your understanding that it
5 will turn off web sites that are alleged to be obscene by
6 some?
7 A No.
8 Q Is it your understanding that the Ashland Fiber Net
9 will cut off access to a web site that has
10 copyright-infringing material?
11 A Yes.
12 Q What do you know about copyright infringement?
13 A Very little.
14 Q Do you know who owns the copyright on a photograph
15 of, let's say, me?
16 A I have no idea.
17 Q Do you have any idea whether it is the person
18 photographed or the person that took the photograph?
19 A Nope.
20 Q And you clearly were not contacted by a
21 photographer?
22 MS. O'KASEY: In connection with this picture?
23 MR. CARREON: Correct, Counsel. Thank you, Counsel.
24 THE WITNESS: I don't know.
25 Q BY MR. CARREON: Ms. Harris (sic) claimed to have
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
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1 been the subject of a photograph that had been doctored?
2 MR. HARDY: Objection to form.
3 THE WITNESS: Yes.
4 Q BY MR. CARREON: She did not claim to be the
5 photographer whose work had been doctored; did she?
6 A She did not.
7 Q Okay. However, you did not worry about these
8 matters at length because you have lawyers to help you;
9 correct?
10 MS. O'KASEY: I object and instruct you not to
11 answer if it requires an answer based on the attorney-client
12 privilege.
13 MR. CARREON: It sure doesn't.
14 Q You don't worry about it because you have lawyers
15 to rely on as reflected in Exhibit 5, and you forwarded her
16 e-mail to legal counsel; correct?
17 MS. O'KASEY: I object to the form of the question
18 and instruct you not to answer it to the extent it calls you
19 to reveal any discussions between you and the city attorney.
20 MR. CARREON: It clearly does not.
21 MS. O'KASEY: If it doesn't, you can answer based on
22 what you know outside of any conversations you had with the
23 city attorney.
24 THE WITNESS: That particular thought process did
25 not enter my mind.
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
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1 Q BY MR. CARREON: You didn't think about whether you
2 knew anything about copyright infringement or not is what
3 you are saying?
4 You didn't think about it because it's not your job
5 to determine whether something is a copyright infringement
6 or not; right?
7 A It is not my job to determine whether something is
8 copyright infringement or not.
9 Q All right. Whose job is it?
10 MS. O'KASEY: I object to the form of the question.
11 If you know, you can answer, if it's anybody's.
12 THE WITNESS: I don't know.
13 Q BY MR. CARREON: Okay. So faced with the problem
14 that you had here -- because you have Exhibit 2 and you have
15 Exhibit 1; correct?
16 Now, you knew that Exhibit 2 presented a concern
17 because this is an e-mail from a lady who was alleging
18 copyright infringement; correct? You have to deal with
19 this; right?
20 A Yes.
21 Q That's part of your job?
22 A It is part of my job.
23 Q Okay, great. And the way you deal with it is
24 according to what is laid out in Exhibit 1; correct?
25 A Correct.
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
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1 Q Okay. Now, you wrote Exhibit 1; right?
2 A That is correct.
3 Q And when did you write it?
4 A Um, on the 11th of August.
5 Q So that was nine days after the shutdown of the
6 American-Buddha.com modem; is that correct?
7 A That is correct.
8 Q Up until then, where had this AFN copyright
9 infringement process policy been recorded?
10 A Um, we had had various conversations about it with
11 our ISPs, and the policy had been used for the past number
12 of years.
13 Q Where was it recorded?
14 A It was not recorded.
15 Q Okay. So it was recorded in your brain; correct?
16 A Correct.
17 Q So that's why you wrote it down on paper?
18 A (Witness nods head.)
19 Q Is that correct?
20 A That is correct.
21 Q Was it recorded in anyone else's brain, to your
22 knowledge?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Whose?
25 A Jon Dowd at InfoStructure, and our ISP knew of it.
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
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1 Q So you confirmed that your understanding was the
2 same as Jon Dowd's?
3 MS. O'KASEY: About what? I object to the form of
4 the question.
5 Q BY MR. CARREON: How about we start over?
6 When did you talk to Jon Dowd about the
7 infringement policy?
8 A At an ISP meeting sometime in August.
9 Q And was that August 1st, August 2nd, or --
10 A I do not recall.
11 Q Do you have a record of a meeting?
12 A I'm sure that there is a record of when that
13 meeting occurred.
14 Q And where would that record be?
15 A In our calendar.
16 Q Were there any documents exchanged at that time?
17 A This document was given to all the ISPs.
18 Q Okay. So now we have determined that it was
19 certainly after August 11; is that correct?
20 A Yes.
21 Q And so on what day prior to August 11th had you
22 discussed the matter of the copyright infringement policy
23 with any of the ISPs?
24 A We have discussed it at almost every ISP meeting
25 since the inception of Ashland Fiber Network.
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
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1 Q But never recorded it?
2 A Correct.
3 Q Okay. And when you forwarded Exhibit 1 to legal
4 counsel -- let me find it -- oh, Counsel -- excuse me -- all
5 right.
6 According to Exhibit 5, why don't you just go ahead
7 and read the first line of this e-mail that is from you to
8 Kathleen Parker.
9 A "Received; I'll contact the ISP and our
10 legal department to see what we can do for
11 you."
12 Q So how did you contact the legal department?
13 A By telephone.
14 Q Whom did you call?
15 A I called the legal -- 2090 number.
16 Q Did you forward to the legal department the
17 Kathleen Parker e-mail?
18 A I do not recall.
19 Q And did you attempt to ascertain whether you had,
20 in preparation for this deposition? Did you --
21 A No.
22 Q Were you asked to review a document request?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Okay. And did you review it?
25 A Yes.
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
24
1 Q And notwithstanding having reviewed the document
2 request, you did not review your e-mails to determine
3 whether you had forwarded to Kathleen Parker Exhibit -- this
4 e-mail to the legal department?
5 You are looking at counsel as if she might have an
6 answer, but the question is to you, sir.
7 A It was my understanding that communications with
8 counsel were not a function of the request.
9 Q So in other words, you wouldn't produce a document
10 to the plaintiff in this case based on the advice of counsel
11 which reflected that you had actually forwarded the Kathleen
12 Parker Exhibit 2 e-mail to the legal department; is that
13 correct?
14 A Correct.
15 Q Does such a document exist, however? To produce it
16 or not, does such a document exist?
17 A I don't recall.
18 Q You don't remember whether you forwarded it at all?
19 A I believe I suggested to you that I had called the
20 legal department.
21 Q You told me you called the legal department. We
22 are still trying to find out whether you remember or whether
23 your memory is so poor that you do not remember whether you
24 forwarded the actual e-mail from Ms. Kathleen Parker to
25 counsel?
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
25
1 You will note that your counsel is not objecting to
2 this line of questioning on the grounds of it being
3 privileged; the reason being, that it's not.
4 Whether you forwarded it is not a privileged matter
5 and it's not necessary to, you know, do anything other than
6 answer the question.
7 A I do not recall.
8 Q Did you have any conversations with legal counsel
9 for the City of Ashland concerning this matter?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And when were those conversations?
12 A On the 2nd.
13 Q On the 2nd, not on the 1st?
14 A Correct.
15 Q And did you make any decisions about what to do
16 based on those communications?
17 MS. O'KASEY: I object and instruct you not to
18 answer. It calls for attorney-client privileged
19 information.
20 Q BY MR. CARREON: I take it you are going to follow
21 that instruction?
22 A Yes.
23 MS. O'KASEY: You need to answer audibly with a yes
24 or a no. He can't --
25 THE WITNESS: Yes.
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
26
1 MR. CARREON: Especially Mr. Hardy, he has no idea
2 what you are saying.
3 THE WITNESS: Okay.
4 Q BY MR. CARREON: So did you call Ms. Parker back?
5 A Yes.
6 Q And what did you tell her?
7 A I told her that the site was still on.
8 Q Did you relay to her anything that the attorneys or
9 the attorney had said to you? Did you tell her anything?
10 A No.
11 Q Did you say, the lawyer said this or the lawyer
12 said that?
13 A No. I said that there were lawyers involved.
14 Q And what did you tell her about what you were going
15 to do with response to her request?
16 A Nothing.
17 Q What did you tell her then?
18 You called her back and you said, hello, Ms.
19 Parker --
20 A -- there are lawyers involved.
21 Q And did she talk to the lawyer?
22 A I have no idea.
23 Q Did you give her a telephone number for a city
24 lawyer?
25 A I do not recall.
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
27
1 Q Did you give her an e-mail address for a city
2 lawyer?
3 A I don't believe so.
4 Q Did you assure her that anything was going to be
5 done?
6 A No.
7 Q When did you make that phone call?
8 A Somewhere around the 3rd or the 4th.
9 Q At that point, the modem had already been turned
10 off and turned back on?
11 A Correct.
12 Q And had she called you again?
13 A I believe so.
14 Q How many times did you call Kathleen Parker?
15 A I think I called her one time.
16 Q And that would have been on the 3rd or the 4th?
17 A Correct.
18 Q Did you call anybody at InfoStructure?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Who did you talk to?
21 A I spoke to Jon Dowd.
22 Q And what did you tell Jon?
23 A I referred him to the e-mail.
24 Q And is there a document of -- where you forwarded
25 it?
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
28
1 Is that forward produced here among -- I've got
2 three e-mails, and it looks like three would be the document
3 that you sent to Jon Dowd.
4 A That is correct.
5 Q Okay. So you did not forward, to InfoStructure,
6 Kathleen Parker's e-mail?
7 A I did not.
8 Q And you said, I have received a copyright
9 infringement claim against a business customer of yours.
10 This was on August 2, at 6:54 in the morning?
11 A That's correct.
12 Q At that point, had you spoken with legal counsel
13 for the city of Ashland?
14 A I do not believe I had.
15 Q Okay. So when you were saying that you had
16 received a copyright infringement claim, there was no legal
17 input on whether it was a proper copyright infringement
18 claim or anything?
19 A That's correct.
20 Q When you prepared this AFN copyright infringement
21 process document identified as Exhibit 1, did you consult
22 with attorneys in preparing it?
23 A No.
24 MS. O'KASEY: I object and instruct you not to
25 answer.
*** Laura L. Smith, CSR, RPR 541.488.4677 ***
29
1 Q BY MR. CARREON: Do you know what the DMCA is?
2 A Yes.
3 Q What is it?
4 A It is the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
5 Q And what does it proscribe with respect to ISPs and
6 copyright infringement?
7 A I am not completely sure.
8 Q So you have already distributed this document to
9 the ISPs, Exhibit 1?
10 A Yes.
11 Q They think that it's the rule from AFN with regard
12 to how these matters are going to be handled?
13 MS. O'KASEY: I object to the form of the question.
14 You can answer.
15 Q BY MR. CARREON: You have communicated to them that
16 this is how they shall handle matters?
17 A No. This is how we shall handle matters.
18 Q And is it your understanding that the DMCA has the
19 force of law in all 50 states and the city of Ashland?
20 A I don't know.
21 Q You do understand that that -- it's part of the
22 copyright law of the United States; correct?
23 A Okay.
24 Q No, no, please don't agree with me.
25 MS. O'KASEY: No, he's just asking if you know. If
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