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by Chris Hansen and Ann Curry
Dateline NBC
August 2, 2002
Announcer: And now Trail of Terror, a DATELINE
Investigation. Here is Stone Phillips.
STONE PHILLIPS: Passenger jets full of people and fuel
were the weapons of choice last September 11th. But the terrorists
targeting America have other weapons in mind, as you're about to see.
Tonight, Chris Hansen has the results of a nine-month DATELINE
Investigation. You will hear on tapes, never before broadcast, how arms
merchants who may be linked to terrorists are trying to buy an arsenal
of weapons, even components for a nuclear bomb. It begins with an
unlikely source, a player in a game he knew little about. His story
reminds us all of what we're up against and how vigilant we must be.
Mr. RANDY GLASS: I was never involved in any violent
activities. I basically was a con man.
CHRIS HANSEN reporting: (Voiceover) His name is Randy
Glass. He's a former con man who ended up in the middle of an
international terrorist arms deal. Tonight, for the first time, you'll
listen in on his undercover conversations. You'll hear the voices of
people operating here in the United States, people who appear to support
the network of terror.
(Randy Glass driving in convertible; Glass and Chris
Hansen listening to tapes; Glass)
Mr. DIAA MOHSEN: (From tape) Do you know who supplies
them with money?
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) Who?
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) Osama bin laden.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) They talk about buying all kinds
of weapons.
(Audio cassette player)
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) What is that?
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) One of the components for a
nuclear weapon.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) And it's no laughing matter.
(Glass and Hansen)
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) I kill him. I'll kill you.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) It's a rare opportunity, an
exclusive look inside an ongoing investigation targeting the terror
supporters among us. The story begins with Randy Glass, a man who admits
he was a thief, a con man.
(People walking down street; Glass; Glass and Hansen)
Mr. GLASS: I gained people's trust. And they felt
comfortable giving me their merchandise. If I couldn't talk you out of
it, you got to keep it.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Glass says he grew up in a broken
family in Baltimore and quit school at the age of 15. He hit the
streets, where he learned to do whatever it took to make a living. He
had plenty of scrapes with the law, at least nine arrests, and even did
a little time in prison. He says he found his greatest success working
scams in the jewelry business, especially in New York's diamond
district. Did you ever con anybody on this street?
(Glass; jail cell being opened; people walking down
street; Glass)
Mr. GLASS: Yes, I have.
HANSEN: Big cons?
Mr. GLASS: Yes.
HANSEN: Millions of dollars?
Mr. GLASS: Yes.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Glass would win the confidence of
unwitting wholesalers, who would lend him diamonds on credit. And when
they would come looking for their money?
(Diamond; Glass looking at diamond)
Mr. GLASS: Well, usually I would make up a story
that...
HANSEN: Like?
Mr. GLASS: ...that I got robbed. That I gave the
diamonds to other people on credit, they hadn't paid me. I would lie.
HANSEN: And how long could you run this out?
Mr. GLASS: Months, over a period of years, until
finally they either sued me or basically gave up.
Mr. JOSEPH MAMANNE: Randy was very smooth.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Joseph Mamanne, a jeweler in Los
Angeles, says he did diamond deals with Randy Glass for years, and Glass
always paid him on time. But then came the sting, and Glass stuck him
for more than $1 million.
(Joseph Mammane; money)
Mr. MAMANNE: We were very good friends. And here I am
a few years later, find out that he set me up I guess, step by step.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) And yet even now, Randy Glass
still has plenty of friends in the business. We asked him to show us how
easy it is for him to borrow diamonds on good faith. All it took was a
few minutes with a jeweler he knew. So you got the goods?
(Diamond rings; Glass and Hansen; Hansen)
Mr. GLASS: Yeah, all you have to do is sign a piece of
paper, and you get whatever I do, I get whatever I ask for.
HANSEN: Those are diamonds.
Mr. GLASS: Yes.
HANSEN: Big diamonds.
Mr. GLASS: Well, two of them are large, yes, and two
of them...
HANSEN: How many carats are those?
Mr. GLASS: These are -- I have to check the papers --
over five carats each.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Only a few years ago, Randy Glass
seemed to have it all: a big home, luxury cars, a lavish lifestyle in
ritzy Boca Raton, Florida.
(Photo of Glass; house; photos of Glass)
Mr. GLASS: I never left the house without a few
thousand dollars in my pocket.
HANSEN: Life was sweet?
Mr. GLASS: Life was chaotic. I was addicted to
chaos.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Eventually government
investigators got wind of the chaos he was causing and charged Glass
with a scheme to defraud his victims in the diamond business, federal
charges that prosecutors said could send him to prison for 10 years. But
while Glass was out on bond awaiting trial, he received a call that
would change his life forever, one that would launch him into a whole
different career. Randy Glass, now facing criminal charges, was
contacted by a man who said he wanted to do a jewelry deal.
(Diamonds; court papers; computers; telephone)
Mr. GLASS: He invited me to lunch, told me he liked
the way I handled myself and that jewelry wasn't the only thing that he
dealt in. Would I be interested in doing any other type of deals? So we
discussed a variety of different deals, and eventually he brought up the
subject of arms.
HANSEN: Arms?
Mr. GLASS: Yes.
HANSEN: As in weapons?
Mr. GLASS: Correct.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) It was late fall 1998, and
Randy Glass, con man, was about to become a secret agent, a soldier in
the war on terrorism. A war that had been escalating ever since the
previous summer, when operatives of Osama bin Laden bombed US embassies
in Africa. Glass, a man who spent his life ducking the law, decided to
use his skills as a scam artist to help the government go after the bad
guys. He agreed to work undercover. He says he did it because it was the
right thing to do, though also it could eventually land him a reduced
prison sentence. From the start, he was eager to impress his government
handlers with all the evidence he could gather.
(Glass driving in car; war footage; Glass; diamonds;
Glass)
Mr. GLASS: They couldn't believe what they heard. It
was, it -- it sounded like it was out of a movie.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) And it was all on tape.
(Reel)
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) He is the buyer for the
nuclear weapon materials.
(Announcements)
Announcer: We now continue with Trail of Terror.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) It was the fall of 1998. Only a
few months earlier, two US embassies in Africa had been bombed by
terrorists, and Osama bin Laden had become enemy number one. Back in the
US, Randy Glass, diamond thief, was now working undercover for the
government to expose illegal weapons deals. In the presence of a
federal agent, Glass agreed to make some phone calls, one to a business
contact who once casually asked Glass about buying weapons. He was
an American citizen born in Egypt who moved to New Jersey about 30 years
ago. His name? Diaa Mohsen, Di for short.
(Bombing footage; Osama bin Laden; Glass; house; Glass
on phone; photo of Diaa Mohsen; business card)
HANSEN: So you call up Diaa Mohsen in Jersey City.
Mr. GLASS: Uh-huh, correct.
HANSEN: In front of this federal agent...
Mr. GLASS: Absolutely.
HANSEN: And you say what?
Mr. GLASS: I said to him, 'Di, I have an opportunity
and a situation here. Are you interested?' He said, 'I'll be on the next
plane.'
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Federal agents were about to hit
pay dirt. It was the beginning of a 2-1/2-year investigation by the
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and the FBI, with help from US
Customs. And so Randy Glass picked up his contact at the Fort Lauderdale
airport in a car the Feds had wired for sound. It was December 1998. The
tapes you are about to hear have never been broadcast before. The
government is aware DATELINE has obtained them. At first, Glass
admits he's new to the game, but says he's got the right connections.
(Palm tree; air traffic control tower, airplane; logo
for Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms; J. Edgar Hoover FBI
building; car driving down freeway; cassette tapes; cars on freeway)
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) I never dealt with this stuff
like this before, OK? So understand, all right, I'm a little nervous,
because I mean, after all, it's -- it's so -- it's so illegal.
The cover story was that I had people that were
stealing these military weapons.
HANSEN: From the US military.
Mr. GLASS: Correct, from the US military.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Glass's contact, Diaa Mohsen,
implies he represents men of Arab descent and suggests they need to be
discreet.
(Photo of Mohsen and Glass)
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) You have to be very, very,
very, very careful, especially right now. I'm telling you, because
they've been watching quite carefully.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Mohsen says Arab immigrants like
him are being watched carefully because the government is looking for
any possible connection to terrorists.
(People carrying grocery bags)
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) They want this guy Osama
bin Laden big time.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) And what kind of weapons does he
say his contacts want? Stinger missiles, for one, and more.
(Men using Stinger missiles)
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) They use rocket grenades. They
have howitzer. They have like 120-millimeter howitzer.
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) What is that? That's like a --
what's a howitzer? A cannon?
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) Cannon. Artillery.
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) Artillery. It's like artillery
like in the movies.
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) Yeah.
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) Oh, Di. This is a new world for
me.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) And then Glass's contact tells him
where the potential customers can be found.
(Photo of Mohsen and Glass)
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) I'll take you to the border
between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Finally, he confirms just what
kind of people he's dealing with.
(Footage of terrorist training camp)
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) You know these (word censored
by station) people, they are terrorists.
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) So these are terrorists?
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) Sure.
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) That's wonderful.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) And what else do the terrorists
want? 'Special technology,' he says, 'for the deadliest of weapons.'
(Footage of terrorist training camp)
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) What is that?
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) One of the components for a
nuclear weapon.
HANSEN: You had to be blown away.
Mr. GLASS: Yeah. I was. I -- I absolutely -- but I
went right with it.
HANSEN: I mean, we're not talking about, you know, a
trunk full of assault rifles here.
Mr. GLASS: Right.
HANSEN: Nuclear triggers, Stinger missiles,
surface-to-air missiles.
Mr. GLASS: Right. I just went right with it.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) By now, Glass says, he began to
wonder whether Mohsen was just blowing smoke, whether he just liked to
talk big. So he put Mohsen to the test.
(Glass walking on beach)
Mr. GLASS: And I say to him, 'Let me ask you a
question. How do you travel to all of these places without coming up on
the radar screen of the CIA or other intelligence agencies in the world?
It doesn't -- this doesn't make sense to me.' At that point, he told me
he travels under different passports.
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) You know, I have a special
passport I travel with.
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) What do you mean, a special
passport?
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) I have a passport. I enter any
(word censored by station) country and be protected.
Mr. GLASS: So right away I picked up on that. And I
say, 'Well, wait a second, you can get different passports that you can
travel to other countries?' He said, 'Sure, do you need one?' I said...
HANSEN: 'Why, yes!'
Mr. GLASS: 'Yes. Can you get me one?'
HANSEN: (Voiceover) The federal government has long
known that terrorists travel undetected using fake identities, backed up
by real passports they obtain illegally. Could Di Mohsen really get one?
He could if he was for real. And sure enough, a few weeks later, Randy
Glass got a package in the mail, a Venezuelan passport with his photo.
Was it legit?
(Security checking passports; Venezuela passport;
Glass)
Mr. GLASS: Yes, it was, it was an actual.
HANSEN: A legitimate Venezuelan passport?
Mr. GLASS: Complete with an exit stamp, as if I had
been in Venezuela and had left.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) And the fake name Glass chose? Of
all names, Robert Blake.
(Venezuelan passport)
HANSEN: If you had wanted to, you could have taken
this passport and traveled around the world.
Mr. GLASS: That's correct.
HANSEN: As Robert Blake from Venezuela.
Mr. GLASS: That's correct.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Apparently, the man from Jersey
City, Di Mohsen, was for real.
(Photo of Mohsen and Glass)
HANSEN: So he just wasn't some two-bit guy from Jersey
City?
Mr. GLASS: That's -- that's right.
HANSEN: He was connected.
Mr. GLASS: Absolutely.
HANSEN: Now that Diaa Mohsen had shown he could come
through, it was time for Randy Glass to do the same. Before Mohsen
traveled to the Mideast, he wanted proof Glass could actually deliver
weapons. A meeting was set up here in a van here, in this hotel parking
lot in New Jersey. It was January 21st, 1999. Glass and the undercover
federal agents posing as his associates showed Diaa Mohsen a Stinger
missile. He asked them to snap a photo of him posing with the missile.
It was all he needed. With photo in hand, Mohsen went off to Egypt, to
prove to weapons buyers that Randy Glass was the right guy to make a
deal with.
Randy Glass, holding a Stinger
missile. [Source: David Friedman/ Getty Images]
(Voiceover) In short order, he arranged for a couple
of prospective buyers to travel from Egypt to Florida to meet Randy
Glass in person. By now you may be saying to yourself, 'Can all this be
for real? Can Randy Glass be for real? And is he telling the truth?'
This man says he is. He's Dick Stoltz, a decorated agent with the Bureau
of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. He was asked to play the role of one
of Randy Glass' arms suppliers. And he confirmed that Randy Glass is for
real.
(People walking in airport; Glass working on computer;
Dick Stoltz)
Mr. DICK STOLTZ: He was remarkable. I thought his
courage was remarkable. He went way beyond what -- what most people that
cooperate with the government.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Stoltz, who recently retired from
the ATF, says that when the prospective arms buyers showed up in
Florida, Glass brought them to his home in a gated community, a setting
that was perfect.
(Stoltz; photo of Glass; house)
Mr. STOLTZ: It would be very difficult for the
government to try to duplicate an undercover prop like that. There would
be maids there in Randy's house and dogs, and he'd introduce them to his
wife and his son and ...
HANSEN: Sort of like the Osbournes, only they didn't
know they were being taped.
Mr. STOLTZ: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) On the tapes, you can hear that
one minute Glass is talking arms deals, while the next ...
(House)
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) Hey, what's hold -- hold --
hold on one sec. Honey, the dog peed.
Mr. STOLTZ: It really legitimized the undercover op
because these people drive in and they see, here's a -- here's a --
here's a man with a home, and the neighbors are saying, 'Hello, Randy.'
And they bought off on the whole package right away.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) His very first visitors sure
bought the package. They were a couple of Egyptian businessmen who
claimed to have ties to Islamic militant groups known to be connected to
bin Laden. Glass and Stoltz took the Egyptians to what they said was an
illegal arms showroom, but in fact it was a government undercover
warehouse stocked with the real thing, including surface-to-air missiles
and an array of weapons.
(Photo of Glass; apartments; weapons)
Mr. STOLTZ: (Voiceover) We showed them some 16s,
M-60s, anti-tank weapons. Other -- other small arms explosives, C4,
plastic explosives.
(Photos of Glass holding weapons)
Mr. STOLTZ: They liked all of it, they wanted all of
it, and they said that they wished they had stumbled onto us before.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) On the undercover tapes, it's
clear that above all else, the deal depends on Stinger missiles.
(Cassette tapes)
Offscreen Voice: (From tape) You must have the
stingers for only one reason. You won't take your money if you don't
have stingers.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) The Egyptian arms buyers seemed
friendly enough when they posed for pictures, but they then warned
Stoltz:
(Photo of man holding weapon)
Mr. STOLTZ: 'If anything goes wrong in this deal,
people will die.'
HANSEN: People will die.
Mr. STOLTZ: That's correct.
HANSEN: (VO) Ultimately, though, they never
concluded a deal. But Di Mohsen, Randy Glass's contact from Jersey
City, said he had another buyer in mind. And who did he do business
with?
(Photo of man holding weapon; photo of Glass)
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) He is very connected to the
Taliban. Do you know who supplies them with money?
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) Who?
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) Osama bin Laden.
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) That's very nice.
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) Yeah.
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) Well, thanks for mentioning
that.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Randy Glass was about to be
introduced to many others who were interested in buying his weapons. As
you'll soon learn, some of them have been living and working here in the
US for decades.
(Photo of Glass holding weapon)
HANSEN: (From video) Hi, how are you? Mr. Malik?
Mr. MOHAMMED MALIK: (From video) Yes, sir.
HANSEN: (From video) Chris Hansen, with DATELINE NBC.
How are you?
(Announcements)
Announcer: Trail of Terror, tonight's DATELINE
Investigation, will continue after this brief message.
(Announcements)
Announcer: We now return to Trail of Terror, tonight's
DATELINE Investigation.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Con-man-turned-undercover
operative Randy Glass was infiltrating a terrorist arms-buying network,
layer by layer, a network apparently operating here on US soil. Now, in
July 1999, more than two years before 9/11, Glass's original contact
from Jersey City, Diaa Mohsen, was putting him in touch with someone
else, a man who Mohsen said had close ties to the Taliban.
(Photo of Glass holding weapon; people walking down
street; street; photo of Glass; photo of Mohsen; war footage)
HANSEN: Did you know who the Taliban was at that time?
Mr. GLASS: I never even heard of them, and I
misunderstood what he said.
Mr. DIAA MOHSEN: (From tape) The Taliban from
Afghanistan.
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) Tari -- wait, wait, wait. See,
I'm not familiar with that stuff. What is it called, Tariban?
And almost comically, I responded with, 'the Tariban?'
HANSEN: The Tariban?
Mr. GLASS: The what?
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) Yeah. This is the group, they
rule Afghanistan now.
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) Yeah.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Finally, it begins to sink in when
Mohsen explains that the Taliban is connected to Osama bin Laden.
(War footage; bin Laden)
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) They're protecting this guy.
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) OK. And you're telling me that
these guys, that's who wants to buy.
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) Yeah.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Moments later, Randy Glass is on
the phone with his new contact, another American citizen in Jersey City,
Mohamed Malik. He's a small businessman who has owned a few convenience
stores, a laundromat and a long distance phone card company. He's active
in the community, even served on the Jersey City Zoning Board. He goes
by the name of Mike.
(Photo of Glass; Mohamed Malik on phone)
Mr. MALIK: (From tape) Hello? Mr. Randy?
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) Yes.
Mr. MALIK: (From tape) How do you do, sir?
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) Hi, Mike, how are you?
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Mike explains just how quickly the
people he represents want weapons.
(Reel)
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) Let me ask you, what the --
they're ready to buy right now?
Mr. MALIK: (From tape) Everything, any time. Actually
those people are interested, like, yesterday.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) And he wants to make sure they're
getting a good deal.
(Photo of Malik)
Mr. MALIK: (From tape) But one thing -- can I ask one
question?
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) Yes, of course.
Mr. MALIK: (From tape) Is this competitive prices
you're talking about?
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) Oh, Mike, no one can beat my
prices.
And I tell him, well when can someone come here from
there? And he informs me at that time that one of the agents is already
here.
HANSEN: And wants to meet with you?
Mr. GLASS: Correct. And this turns out to be a guy by
the name of Abbas.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) And Randy Glass was about to
meet this Abbas character face-to-face. On July 22nd, 1999, Glass flew
to New York for a meeting here at the trendy Tribeca Grill, partly owned
by actor Robert De Niro. It was dinner for four, Glass, his first
contact Diaa Mohsen, the Jersey City business man Mike Malik and the
mystery man R.G. Abbas.
(Bridge; Tribeca Grill; Glass; photos of Mohsen; Malik
and R.G. Abbas)
Mr. GLASS: I was sitting exactly right here.
HANSEN: Abbas is here.
Mr. GLASS: Abbas is sitting where you are. Malik is
sitting to my left and Mohsen is sitting to my right.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Abbas gave Glass a business card,
saying he worked for Malik's long distance phone card company. Glass was
wearing a wire. Mixed in with the dinner crowd were agents from the
FBI's Terrorism Task Force, in case anything went wrong. Glass says
Abbas was all business.
(Business card; hidden camera footage; Glass and
Hansen)
Mr. GLASS: Basically what he told me was that they
were interested in purchasing a large amount of sophisticated weapons
systems. And they wanted an actual shipload, not a small amount.
HANSEN: A shipload?
Mr. GLASS: Yes.
HANSEN: And who was Abbas representing in this
transaction?
Mr. GLASS: Abbas was represented to me as being an
ISI agent.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) ISI, that's the official
intelligence agency, like the CIA, of Pakistan. And this is where the
stakes really get high, because if Abbas was telling the truth, Randy
Glass and the Feds were about to cut an illegal weapons deal with a
Pakistani intelligence operative linked to terrorists. Even though the
official Pakistani government and its president, Pervez Musharraf, are
US allies, there are splinter groups in the Pakistani Intelligence
Agency that are sympathetic to bin Laden and his cause. And Abbas seemed
anything but a US ally.
(People riding motorcycles; photo of Abbas; war
footage; President Pervez Musharraf with President Bush; photo of Abbas)
Mr. GLASS: He told me that Americans were the enemy.
And he looked around the restaurant and he said, 'We would have no
problem with blowing up this entire restaurant.'
HANSEN: 'We would have no problem blowing up this
entire restaurant?'
Mr. GLASS: 'Because it's full of Americans.'
HANSEN: That's a chilling statement.
Mr. GLASS: Well, as a matter of fact, I had a chill
that ran through my body because I looked into his eyes and I felt the
seriousness of his intention.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Then in the middle of a crowded
New York restaurant, Glass says the talk turned to something much more
ominous, components for nuclear weapons, triggering devices and
plutonium.
(Hidden camera footage; nuclear weapons)
Mr. GLASS: They inquired if it was available.
HANSEN: And you said?
Mr. GLASS: Yes.
HANSEN: And they responded?
Mr. GLASS: They were interested.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Dick Stoltz, the veteran
undercover agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms who
worked the case confirmed Randy Glass' account.
(Stoltz on phone)
HANSEN: You had to realize that the people being
talked about as customers for these weapons were the most wanted
terrorists in the world.
Mr. STOLTZ: That's correct.
HANSEN: Bin Laden.
Mr. STOLTZ: Correct.
HANSEN: Did you think they were serious?
Mr. STOLTZ: Oh, absolutely.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) In fact, Stoltz says Randy Glass's
dinner companions were checked out by US intelligence experts and found
to have real connections.
(Names on computer screen)
Mr. STOLTZ: We did confirm through various sources
that -- that Abbas and Malik did have links to weapons trafficking
groups and -- and militant operations.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Those groups, law enforcement
officials say, include Islamic militants fighting on the border between
India and Pakistan, some of which have ties to bin Laden. A few
weeks after the dinner at the Tribeca Grill, the arms brokers flew from
New Jersey to Florida to see the weapons for sale, and there they met
with undercover Agent Stoltz, posing as an arms supplier. Stoltz says
that more than anything else, they wanted materials for nuclear weapons,
especially a substance called heavy water, which is used to make
weapons-grade plutonium. Sometimes, as on this tape, Abbas used a code
name, referring to heavy water as "sweet water."
(War footage; plane taking off; photo of Stoltz;
nuclear weapons; reel)
Mr. R.G. ABBAS: (From tape) And we hook up to the
guys, which is the in Pakistan work for us.
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) Yeah, of course.
Mr. ABBAS: (From tape) So we say to him, 'Whatever you
need, anything up to the, I mean, the sweet water,' you know?
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) Yes.
Mr. STOLTZ: They would tell me, the people that I'm
dealing with, they have to have the heavy water.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) And unless they got it, Stoltz was
told, the deal was off.
(Stoltz)
HANSEN: That was a deal breaker.
Mr. STOLTZ: That was a deal breaker. They were
flexible maybe on military parts for airplanes or small arms or maybe
even stingers, but they always came back to square one, heavy water.
HANSEN: For nuclear weapons.
Mr. STOLTZ: Correct.
HANSEN: And that wasn't all the arms dealers wanted.
DATELINE has learned that Mike Malik gave the undercover agents a list
of radioactive chemicals that could be used to make a so-called "dirty
bomb," conventional explosives laced with radioactive materials. Bin
Laden's terrorists are believed to have talked about detonating such a
bomb in a major US city to spread toxic radiation.
(Voiceover) Malik and Abbas were so serious about
closing a deal, Stoltz says, they went back to Pakistan to talk to their
customers in person. Then, Stoltz says, Abbas informed him there was one
more condition, he wanted to bring a Pakistani nuclear scientist to
America who could inspect the nuclear materials that would be part of
the deal.
(Airplane taking off; Pakistan; photo of Stoltz and
Abbas; nuclear scientist)
HANSEN: And he told you the name of the scientist?
Mr. STOLTZ: He told me the name.
HANSEN: And did you check this out?
Mr. STOLTZ: Of course. It was passed up the line and
it was confirmed that this person did exist, and that's what -- what he
did for the Pakistani government, that he was in the field of atomic
weapons. He was a scientist.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) It was now October, 2000. The big
news involving terrorism was the bombing of the USS Cole in Yemen.
Negotiations between the agents and the arms buyers dragged on until
December. Finally, there was an agreement, the buyers would pay $32
million over several years. The first shipments would be conventional
weapons. Nuclear components would come later. A Florida bank account was
set up to receive the $32 million wire transfer that was supposed to
come from a bank in the Middle Eastern Emirate of Dubai. Federal agents
waited six months, but the money never came.
(USS Cole; photos of weapons; money; weapons; bank;
Dubai; money)
Mr. STOLTZ: And at that point, it was decided that --
that we would -- we would take the case down. We -- we -- we thought we
had gone about as far as we could with it.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) In June of last year, the Feds
moved in and arrested Randy Glass's original contact, Diaa Mohsen, and
Mohamed "Mike" Malik. That was three months before 9/11. After 9/11,
both men pled guilty to violating arms laws. But remarkably, even though
they were apparently willing to supply America's enemies with
sophisticated weapons, even nuclear weapons technology, Mohsen was
sentenced to just 30 months in prison. And Malik? Mysteriously, his
sentence remains under seal. And he appears to be a free man, as we saw
recently when we visited him at his New Jersey convenience store.
(Mug shots of Mohsen and Malik; court papers; weapons;
mug shot of Mohsen; convenience store)
HANSEN: (From video) Mr. Malik?
Mr. MALIK: (From video) Yes, sir.
HANSEN: (From video) Chris Hansen, with DATELINE NBC.
How are you?
(Voiceover) At first he denied his role in the case.
(Malik in store)
HANSEN: (From video) We have a tape on which you and
some other men talk about an arms deal.
Mr. MALIK: (From video) Yes.
HANSEN: (From video) With people who have suspected
links to terrorists, including Osama bin Laden. And we need to know what
was going on.
Mr. MALIK: (From video) I never had anything on that,
number one. Number two, I'm not allowed to talk anything.
HANSEN: (From video) What do you mean you're not
allowed to talk?
Mr. MALIK: (From video) I'm not -- I'm not interested
to talk about anything whichever, you know.
HANSEN: (From video) But we heard the tapes. You're
on the tape talking about an arms deal.
Mr. MALIK: (From video) No, not me.
HANSEN: (From video) But you pleaded guilty in this
case.
Mr. MALIK: (From video) Because I had to. I was in
problem, so, you know...
HANSEN: (Voiceover) We asked him about his partner
from Pakistan, a mysterious man named Abbas who apparently made no bones
about wanting to kill Americans.
(Malik and Hansen in store; photo of Abbas)
HANSEN: (From video) Who is Mr. Abbas?
Mr. MALIK: (From video) That's not me. That's the guys
in Pakistan.
HANSEN: (From video) But what's your relationship with
Mr. Abbas?
Mr. MALIK: (From video) Nothing.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Nothing? That's not quite the
truth. New Jersey corporate records show the two men were both directors
of the same long distance phone card business.
(Malik in store; papers)
HANSEN: (From video) Mr. Abbas is with the ISI,
Pakistani intelligence?
Mr. MALIK: (From video) No, I don't know. I have no
idea, no clue. I'm sorry about it.
HANSEN: (From video) Abbas ...
Mr. MALIK: (From video) Like I said, I'm not
interested.
HANSEN: (From video) ... made comments about killing
Americans, about wanting to get weapons for the Taliban and Osama bin
Laden.
Mr. MALIK: (From video) Then go there and talk to him.
HANSEN: (From video) Where is Mr. Abbas now?
Mr. MALIK: (From video) I don't know.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Pakistan?
Mr. MALIK: (From video) I don't know.
HANSEN: (From video) Does he have links to terrorist
groups?
Mr. MALIK: (From video) I don't know.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Malik suggested that if we wanted
answers, we should talk to his old friend and co-conspirator from Jersey
City, Diaa Mohsen.
(Malik and Hansen in store)
Mr. MALIK: (From video) He's the man, major guy. He's
in jail. He knows. You go to him, find out whatever you want to find
out.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) We tried to find out more from
Diaa Mohsen, who's now in federal prison in Pennsylvania, but he
declined our request for an interview. Among the unanswered questions,
with all the talk of Pakistan, Islamic militants and nuclear weapons,
were Dick Stoltz and the other federal agents on the verge of cracking a
huge conspiracy?
(Letter; war footage; nuclear weapons)
HANSEN: If you were really an arms dealer who really
had plutonium, nuclear triggering devices, and if that $32 million
really did make it to the US, do you think bin Laden, al-Qaeda, the
Taliban would have the potential for nuclear weapons today, some sort of
nuclear device?
Mr. STOLTZ: I think it's highly likely, because these
people were connected.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) And Stoltz says he's surprised
that all the evidence and intelligence the case generated wasn't pursued
more aggressively at the highest levels of law enforcement in
Washington.
(J. Edgar Hoover FBI building)
Mr. STOLTZ: Quite frankly, I was always wondering
when maybe the case would be taken away from ATF.
HANSEN: So you thought that you were onto something
so big that ultimately FBI, perhaps CIA might take over?
Mr. STOLTZ: Oh, FBI at the minimum.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Could it be that serious leads
from this case have been overlooked by authorities? William Wechsler, at
the time one of President Clinton's top counterterrorism advisers, says
he, too, is puzzled that law enforcement and intelligence agencies in
Washington apparently didn't make this case more of a priority.
(Reel; photo of William Wechsler with President
Clinton)
Mr. WILLIAM WECHSLER: Any time you have an
individual who is talking about getting serious weapons, getting weapons
of mass destruction, especially in the United States, you have to take
that exceedingly seriously. And you have to take action immediately.
HANSEN: Based upon what you know about this case,
did federal investigators go far enough?
Mr. WECHSLER: Based on what I've been told about
this case, federal investigators certainly did not go far enough.
Certainly not quickly enough.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Where else might this case have
led investigators? Are there still people out there with possible links
to this investigation who could or should be under government scrutiny?
(Sidewalk; hidden camera footage)
HANSEN: (From video) Dr. el Amir? Chris Hansen with
DATELINE NBC, how are you?
Dr. MAGDY EL AMIR: (From video) How are you today?
HANSEN: (From video) How's everything going?
(Announcements)
Announcer: Coming up on DATELINE Sunday, you watched
him charge to victory in the Tour de France. Now watch him set a
difference course. Getting candid about his life.
ANN CURRY reporting: Before cancer you described
yourself as, quote, "A kid with four chips on your shoulder."
Mr. LANCE ARMSTRONG: I didn't count them but there
were a few.
Announcer: Ann Curry catches up with Lance Armstrong.
Mr. ARMSTRONG: I don't think you get many comebacks in
life.
Announcer: It is not about the bike.
And next, this shouldn't be news to the US government,
but it appears some of it is.
HANSEN: You seem angry over this.
Representative BEN GILMAN: I'm very angry about it.
Announcer: Has DATELINE learned something the Feds
should already know? When Trail of Terror continues.
(Announcements)
Announcer: And now, the conclusion to Trail of Terror.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) We've heard people on tape trying
to supply terror groups with sophisticated weapons caught in a
government sting operation last year. But only one of them is in jail.
Since then, the government has definitely stepped up its investigations
of people who may be willing to do business with terrorists. But have
some of them ducked the government's radar? Who else might be out there?
Last fall, DATELINE obtained information about this man, Magdy el Amir.
He's a prominent doctor, a neurologist with a practice in Jersey City.
Born and educated in Egypt, he moved to this country about 20 years ago
and since then has built a fortune. He lives in this mansion, is
generous to local charities and is an active supporter of both political
parties. Should counterterrorism investigators take an interest in Dr.
el Amir? Well, take a look at this document obtained by DATELINE last
fall. A foreign intelligence report that makes a startling allegation
about the doctor, that he has had financial ties with Osama bin Laden
for years. The report was given to a senior member of Congress, Ben
Gilman, back in 1998 when he was chairman of the House International
Relations Committee.
(Cassette tapes; mug shot of Mohsen; building;
newspaper headlines; sidewalk; Magdy el Amir; mansion; Magdy; document;
Representative Ben Gilman in Congress)
Rep. GILMAN: We have a former FBI person on our staff,
and I asked him to look it over. He thought it was credible enough to
turn it over to the intelligence people. And we turned it over to the
FBI practically immediately.
HANSEN: And this was 1998?
Rep. GILMAN: 1998.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) The report alleges that an HMO
owned by Dr. el Amir in New Jersey was "funded by Ben Laden," and that
in turn Dr. el Amir was skimming money from the HMO to fund "terrorist
activities."
(Report)
HANSEN: To be fair here, though, this can be
considered as -- as raw intelligence.
Rep. GILMAN: Yeah.
HANSEN: And as we both know sometimes, raw
intelligence isn't always accurate.
Rep. GILMAN: Yes.
HANSEN: Is it possible that somebody has a vendetta
against the people named in this report for political or other reason?
Rep. GILMAN: Of course. That's always possible. But
in like manner, it's important that you pursue it. And make certain
that, is there any veracity to it? Is there any substance to it? Is it a
credible report or isn't it?
HANSEN: Has the FBI answered those questions? Not to
Congressman Gilman's satisfaction. But what DATELINE found intriguing is
that less than a year after the congressman says the FBI received the
report, Dr. el Amir's HMO was taken over by the state of New Jersey,
which opened a fraud investigation. Why? Because, according to sources
close to the investigation, more than $15 million is unaccounted for.
Where did the money go? DATELINE has reviewed documents that show at
least some of it went into hard-to-trace offshore bank accounts.
(Voiceover) Does that mean any of the missing money
went, as the intelligence report suggests, to fund terrorist activities?
We don't know.
(Money)
HANSEN: (From video) Dr. el Amir.
Dr. EL AMIR: (From video) Hey.
HANSEN: (From video) Chris Hansen with DATELINE NBC.
How are you?
(Voiceover) We caught up with Dr. el Amir recently
outside his office. He said he couldn't talk about his HMO and the
missing money. But he had this to say about allegations he's connected
to bin Laden and terrorism.
Dr. EL AMIR: (From video) That's preposterous. Never.
HANSEN: (From video) Why would somebody say something
like that about you?
Dr. EL AMIR: (From video) I have no idea. I have no
idea.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) But the intelligence report
suggests one thing that he doesn't deny, that he has donated money to
the mosque where the blind sheik once preached, Omar Abdel-Rahman, who
is now in prison for his role in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
(Omar Abdel-Rahman)
Dr. EL AMIR: (From video) Wait, it does not make
you, per se, OK, a supporter of a terrorist group, you know.
HANSEN: (From video) So you're saying that you may
have gone to the mosque where Omar Abdel-Rahman was, you may have given
money, but that doesn't make you a terrorist?
Dr. EL AMIR: (From video) It should not even be
called linked. Linked to bad people. I mean, uh, you invent a good
invention.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) DATELINE has found another reason
why federal investigators might want to pay close attention to Dr. el
Amir and his family. It's something we learned when we interviewed Randy
Glass, the con man-turned-undercover operative who helped the government
break up an illegal weapons ring allegedly tied to terrorist groups. It
turns out that one of the people recorded trying to arrange an arms deal
with Randy Glass was Dr. el Amir's own brother, Mohamed, an engineer,
also a US citizen now living in Egypt. And just listen to what he was
interested in.
(Magdy; Glass and Hansen; reel; photo of Mohamed el
Amir)
Mr. MOHAMED EL AMIR: (From tape) Hello?
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) Hi. Mohamed?
Mr. EL AMIR: (From tape) Hi.
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) Hi. This is Randy.
Mr. GLASS: There was a warehouse full of weapons in
Italy that they needed shipped.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) It was the spring of 1999. Mohamed
el Amir explains that he wants false papers that would identify a
shipment of weapons as vegetables.
(Photo of Mohamed; telephone buttons)
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) But you're talking about, they
-- they -- they're saying they want to ship vegetables, right? Is what
they want -- is what they want on the paperwork, correct?
Mr. EL AMIR: (From tape) Yep.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Then Randy Glass cuts to the
chase.
(Reel)
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) Listen, my phone line is
secure. And so I'm just going to talk very open with you, OK?
Mr. EL AMIR: (From tape) Yep.
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) OK. They want to ship things
like tanks, correct?
Mr. EL AMIR: (From tape) Uh-huh.
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) OK. How -- OK.
Mr. EL AMIR: (From tape) No, no, no, no, just
ammunition, not tanks.
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) So they just want to do,
basically, small arms and ammunition, right?
Mr. EL AMIR: (From tape) Yes.
HANSEN: Did Mohamed give you any indication as to who
was going to get these arms?
Mr. GLASS: Never got a chance to ask him.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Glass says federal agents told him
to drop the matter.
(Glass)
HANSEN: So what happened to the case?
Mr. GLASS: Nothing.
HANSEN: There was no follow-up.
Mr. GLASS: No.
HANSEN: Was this a missed opportunity?
Mr. GLASS: One hundred percent.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) And Randy Glass doesn't know the
half of it, because that same intelligence report that talks about Dr.
el Amir also names his brother Mohamed as having ties to Osama bin
Laden.
(Report)
HANSEN: (From video) Your brother Mohamed ...
Dr. EL AMIR: (From tape) I have a brother Mohamed,
yeah.
HANSEN: (From video) He has been heard on tape to be
trying to put together a weapons deal.
Dr. EL AMIR: (From tape) I have no idea about these
things. He is a legitimate person and has no ties to anybody. Has no ...
HANSEN: (From tape) But, doctor, this is on tape.
We've heard the tape.
Dr. EL AMIR: (From tape) Listen, is this him or me?
HANSEN: (From tape) Him.
Dr. EL AMIR: (From tape) Ask him.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) We reached Mohamed el Amir by
phone in Cairo, and he recalled talking to Randy Glass.
(Photo of Mohamed)
Mr. EL AMIR: (From phone) I remember this
conversation. Maybe this was about two, three years ago, but I've never
dealt with arms.
HANSEN: (From phone) Well, what were you talking about
on the tape then, Mr. el Amir?
(Voiceover) Then, even though we'd told him we were
with DATELINE NBC, he asked us if we worked for someone else.
(Telephone)
Mr. EL AMIR: (From phone) Well, are you from the FBI,
sir?
HANSEN: (From phone) No, no, no. I'm a journalist. I'm
a reporter with NBC News.
(Voiceover) In a later conversation, he still seemed
to think we were with the FBI, and insisted he had no links to Islamic
militant groups.
(Photo of Mohamed)
Mr. EL AMIR: (From phone) I hate them. I hate them.
I hate them. Because they destroy the image of the Muslims.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) We also asked him about Diaa
Mohsen, who tried to broker so many weapons deals with Randy Glass.
(Photo of Mohsen)
Mr. EL AMIR: (From phone) I know Diaa Mohsen, yes.
HANSEN: (From phone) And how do you know Mr. Mohsen?
Mr. EL AMIR: (From phone) He is a friend of the
family.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) A friend, he says, of questionable
character.
(Tape cassette)
Mr. EL AMIR: (From phone) He's a big, big, big
loser. He talks too much.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) We also asked Mohamed el Amir's
brother the doctor about Mohsen.
(From video) Do you know a man named Diaa Mohsen?
Dr. EL AMIR: (From video) Mohsen?
HANSEN: (Voiceover) First, Dr. el Amir says he doesn't
know Diaa Mohsen, but later seems to change his tune, sort of.
(Magdy)
HANSEN: (From video) Do you know Di Mohsen?
Dr. EL AMIR: (From video) Yeah, I know this name.
HANSEN: (From video) You know this guy.
Dr. EL AMIR: (From video) I know this name, yeah.
HANSEN: (From video) How do you know him?
Dr. EL AMIR: (From video) Well, he is a friend of
somebody.
HANSEN: (From video) Did you know that he was in
prison?
Dr. EL AMIR: (From video) I saw the Jersey paper and I
hear something like that, but I have nothing to do with whatever he
does.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Nothing? Well, not exactly.
DATELINE has reviewed documents that show, in fact, Diaa Mohsen has been
paid at least $5,000 by Dr. el Amir's companies.
(Photo of Mohsen; building)
HANSEN: (From video) There is information that this
Diaa Mohsen has a connection to you and he pleaded guilty to trying to
sell arms to people with links to terrorist groups, including Osama bin
Laden.
Dr. EL AMIR: (From video) I have no idea about no
terrorist, no connection to anything. I'm a doctor, I work. I have been
working since all of my professional life. Life, from morning to night.
I see patients. I invest the excess of my money in medical businesses,
and that's all about me.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) We laid all this out for
Congressman Ben Gilman, who received the original intelligence report
about Dr. el Amir and his brother Mohamed. And we played him excerpts
from the undercover tapes.
(Hansen with Gilman; cassettes)
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) All right, you're telling me
that they want to ship things like tanks, correct? OK. OK ...
Mr. EL AMIR: (From tape) No, no, no, no, just the
ammunition, not tanks.
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) Just what?
Mr. EL AMIR: (From tape) Ammunition. Not tanks.
HANSEN: In 1998, the el Amirs are mentioned in this
intelligence report ...
Rep. GILMAN: Yes.
HANSEN: ... as supporting Osama bin Laden. In 1999,
Mohamed el Amir is caught on tape trying to do a weapons deal.
Rep. GILMAN: Is he stil l...
HANSEN: Free.
Rep. GILMAN: I'm going to personally pursue that and
find out why.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Congressman Gilman says he wants
to know just what investigators have done with all this information.
(Gilman and Hansen)
Rep. GILMAN: Well, I'm going to be in touch with our
intelligence people, our FBI and with the administration about all of
this.
HANSEN: You seem angry over this.
Rep. GILMAN: I'm very angry at that. And the -- we're
talking about lives now. We're talking about what could occur in the
future and what has occurred. And the president is urging us to be on
the alert, to make certain that we're prepared for any further terrorist
activities. And to have material like that laying around and not being
pursued is appalling.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) And he says he's surprised that
DATELINE is the one to bring this to his attention.
(Hansen with Gilman)
Rep. GILMAN: If you could put it all together, where
were our federal agencies? And that's what we're going to find out.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) ATF Agent Dick Stoltz, who worked
the original undercover investigation with informant Randy Glass, says
federal agents on the case were never given the intelligence information
about the el Amirs that Congressman Gilman had passed on to the FBI. He
says it's the type of lapse that, post-9/11, the government can no
longer afford.
(Stoltz)
Mr. STOLTZ: It is neglect, and I will say, had ATF
received the information, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind
because I've had 32 years in investigations to say that -- that this
case would have taken a priority. It would have been pursued.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) For his part, Randy Glass says
there's a lot more on those tapes, leads the government could pursue,
people still out there only too happy to supply weapons to the network
of terror.
(Casettes; Glass)
Mr. GLASS: Lebanon, Syria, Pakistan, and Egypt. They
all came here.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) And though he knows some people
will always judge him by his con man past, Randy Glass hopes that this
one time he did something right.
(Photos of Glass)
Mr. GLASS: I finally got to be the good guy that I
always knew that I was.
JANE PAULEY: Because of his cooperation, Randy Glass
was given a reduced prison term of seven months. He's now free. The FBI
told us that aspects of the investigation are still under review. And
earlier today, Chris Hansen reached R.G. Abbas on his cell phone. He
says he's in Pakistan. He admits meeting with Randy Glass and the
others, but denies he was ever part of a weapons deal.
Copyright 2002 National Broadcasting Co. Inc.
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